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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 30 September 2016 at 2:51am | IP Logged | 1  

It's heart warming to read this thread.  Many moons ago when the JBF was in its infancy, I argued the exact point people are making here.  Theft is theft is theft no matter if it's a physical copy or digital bits.  I got huge pushback from a ton of people (none of whom are posting now). Much of it was "sticking it to the man" (as if you could honestly use that as a defense if you stole a car off a lot or a book from a big box store) and the rest of the defense was "it was there, for free, so why not?"  That the vast majority here now see online theft the same way as physical theft means that hopefully there's been a shift in perception for the good.

***

Good to see you here, Matt. I'm glad you found it heartwarming.

Like others here, I am with you. Theft is theft. People can 'justify' it however they like. It's usually one of these:

I wasn't going to order the actual product, anyway.
Actors are rich. Let's stick it to them.

Neither of which I agree with. They say they weren't going to order the actual product, but they downloaded a free copy and watched it, anyway.

As for sticking it to actors, that's immature. One, what about the ancillary staff, i.e. the mailroom clerk at Universal or Paramount? Two, I disagree, anyway. I loathe some of the rather immoral CEOs in Britain (look up Phillip Green or Mike Ashley), but if I had to shop in their stores - which I try to avoid - I'm not breaking laws to stick it to them.

Plus, on a personal level, there's also this: the only place that really sells DVDs and CDs in the UK now is HMV (competitors such as Virgin Megastores and Our Price are long gone). Waterstones is the main book seller. I want those stores to thrive. For social reasons, too. I love the interaction when I go into those stores. HMV and Waterstones are renowned for great customer service. I never fail to get chatting about books if in Waterstones; and in HMV, I got into a chat about Superman with one staff member.

Do we really want a bleak Britain where those stores are gone?

You want something, you pay for it. It is odd how people perceive this, though. Those who download or seek free PDF copies of books would probably NEVER steal other things. If a local criminal secretly advertised the fact that he had stolen a load of Coca-Cola cans from a lorry, I doubt those people would necessarily go to have a free can (some would). Yet they think nothing of downloading physical media.

Sadly, the excuses will continue. The last one I heard - someone had downloaded CLOUD ATLAS - was, "But Tom Hanks is rich!" Jeez...
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 30 September 2016 at 4:14am | IP Logged | 2  

I can think of better excuses for trying to get free content, I can even think of better arguments for theft. "Sticking it to the man" and " Because the are rich" are pretty weak arguments.
 

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 30 September 2016 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 3  

Um... even if one doesn't have ethics, wasn't there a commandment or somethn' about "Thou shalt not steal"? Mind you, that's not necessary, but as an additional reason to not take music, movies, etc.

Of course, it would be kind of depressing to think that people need the Bible to tell them that stealing is wrong - same as they need to be told that killing is wrong. So I guess when one factors in the degree of stupid... some people really do need the old man in the nightshirt to tell them what's wrong and what's right.
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Mike Murray
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Posted: 01 October 2016 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 4  

David Gilmour hired The Australian Pink Floyd Show (a tribute band I've seen 4 times) to play his 50th birthday party after seeing them once.  He also sold them the light rig PF had used on their last tour (that big circular screen) and the giant inflatable schoolmaster.  They travel all over the world.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 01 October 2016 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 5  

Um... even if one doesn't have ethics, wasn't there a commandment or somethn' about "Thou shalt not steal"? Mind you, that's not necessary, but as an additional reason to not take music, movies, etc.

Of course, it would be kind of depressing to think that people need the Bible to tell them that stealing is wrong - same as they need to be told that killing is wrong. So I guess when one factors in the degree of stupid... some people really do need the old man in the nightshirt to tell them what's wrong and what's right.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric if one doesn't believe in god the ten commandments is just a movie starring Charlton Heston and many other great actor
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Joe Smith
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Posted: 01 October 2016 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 6  

I will make an educated guess that the Australian Pink
Floyd Show, a. Pays some kind of ASCAP, BMI, SESAC fees
and/or royalties, and, 2. they also are "on the books",
paying a payroll tax and filing with the ARSe. (And most
likely through it, as well.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 02 October 2016 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 7  

Anthony - certainly, but some people apparently need a reason to not steal, since they do not (or cannot) understand that stealing is wrong. If one doesn't comprehend this inherently, perhaps their religion will supply the obviously-but-apparently-necessary dictate.

Of course, there are those who have no morals and who don't believe in anything else. But what can you do?


Edited by Eric Sofer on 02 October 2016 at 8:56am
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 02 October 2016 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 8  


Of course, there are those who have no morals and who don't believe in anything else. But what can you do?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
When I was younger I thought in binary terms. Things were either black or white. There were no shades of gray. As I've matured I learned that's not true. There are many shades of gray in life. My moral compass is no longer set on a fixed point. 
 
There are many reason why I could justify doing things that would be considered wrong. Theft is sometimes an acceptable thing to do. If a person is starving and has no other means of eating. I can justify stealing same thing goes with keeping himself or his family safe and warm with a roof over their heads. 

Another thing I find it perfectly acceptable to commit theft has to do with education. I believe that everyone has the right to increase their knowledge. They shouldn't be punished because of their financial situation. If they can find a pdf of a book online with having to pay for it. I'm all for that. Besides my being okay with them wanting to increase their knowledge. I look at it like this. It's an investment in the future. The more people know the more they can achieve in life. The more they can potential contribute to the betterment of everyone. 

Others don't need to agree with me. I'm perfectly okay with that. Their dissatisfaction with my opinion on the matter. Doesn't really bother me. 

I try to live my life in a series of checks and balances. If sometimes I don't always walk the straight and narrow bath. But when I do I'll try to go above and beyond what is required of me. To make up for the times when I need to take the short cut.
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Sam Parker
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Posted: 10 October 2016 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 9  

From the webcomic "xkcd" by Randall Munroe:

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James Woodcock
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Posted: 10 October 2016 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 10  

Hasn't iTunes been DRM free for a number of years now? I recall them raising the price when they did it
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Joseph Greathouse
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Posted: 10 October 2016 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 11  

"Like others here, I am with you. Theft is theft. People can 'justify' it however they like. It's usually one of these:"

I think the excuse I heard the most often (and used myself back in the day) were one of these two...

1. I already paid for it in the physical format and I want it digitally so as to preserve that copy.

2. Its out of print so my only option is to pirate or pay an exorbitant amount second hand.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 10 October 2016 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 12  

"Hasn't iTunes been DRM free for a number of years now? I recall them raising the price when they did it"

--

For music, yes. For videos, no.

I can't imagine paying $15-20 to "buy" a movie from an online DRMed system that will one day shut down and render your collection unplayable (which is really an extended rental, then). 

Here's What happened with Yahoo Music closed up shop years ago. They actually recommended that customers break copyright law and make backups of their purchased tracks into CDs.
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