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Trevor Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3521
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 1
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When a nation has the power and influence of a United
States, *everyone* has a dog in the fight. Whether we
live there or not, whatever happens in the US has
ramifications for the rest of the world. Especially
those of us at its border.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 2
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Republicans only agree with Libertarians on low taxes
***
In all seriousness though, what do Republicans stand for? Trump is no Conservative. Other than building a wall and vaguely promising to bring back jobs, has he held a consistent position on anything? What the Republican 'elite' stand for doesn't seem to match with what's driving the Republican base; I don't see much there beyond lower-middle class white anxiety.
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 588
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 3
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"Why would anyone vote for a guy who doesn't know what Aleppo is? That's ignorance on a monumental scale."
In the video, as soon as the interviewer clarified that he was talking about, Johnson was able to respond adequately and consistently with his platform. Unfortunately, the picture is left as though he had no knowledge about the situation whatsoever. But, at least he is a candidate who asked for more information instead of making up an answer. And I hardly think it is a gaff worse than either major party candidates have made to date. Frankly, I see it as inconsequential by comparison.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3010
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| Republicans only agree with Libertarians on low taxes
***
In all seriousness though, what do Republicans stand for? Trump is no Conservative. Other than building a wall and vaguely promising to bring back jobs, has he held a consistent position on anything? What the Republican 'elite' stand for doesn't seem to match with what's driving the Republican base; I don't see much there beyond lower-middle class white anxiety. |
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I think it's telling that the decent, honorable, concerned for country #NeverTrump Republicans mostly despise Trump because they think he'll lose, and believe he can't be trusted to outlaw abortion and re-invade Iraq in the unlikely event he wins. The "sane" Republicans are basically concerned a Trump presidency won't damage the country enough. Nothing about Trump is in any way an outlier for Republicans. His incoherent, hypocompetent bullying IS the GOP.
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1892
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 5
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I don't think Trump actually is a Republican, he is just saying whatever he thinks will appeal to Republican voters to get him elected. Trump was firmly pro abortion and atheist before he ran for the nomination. The only thing more sickening than Trump's hypocrisy is the religious right giving him their endorsement.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 6
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Peter Hicks wrote:
| but my understanding is that Republicans only agree with Libertarians on low taxes |
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That's sort of an understatement though, because low taxes (and resultant spending cuts) are the single biggest component of the Republican platform.
Areas where Johnson agrees with Republicans (or takes a position even further to the right):
He supports abolishing personal and corporate income tax and replacing them with a national sales tax, a regressive system that shifts tax responsibility to lower earners.
He believes the minimum wage should be eliminated.
He supports privatization of social security and raising the retirement age, as well as putting the management of Medicare into the hands of the individual states. He opposes the Medicare prescription drug benefit.
He opposes any government action to mitigate climate change, and supports broad general deregulation of business.
He supports repeal of Obamacare and believes healthcare can be improved simply by further deregulation of the insurance industry.
He supports elimination of the Department of Education, as well as elimination of all federal student loan assistance programs.
He believes there should be no restrictions on individual gun ownership.
Although he says he supports abortion rights, he also says that he personally opposes abortion, and that he believes Roe v Wade was an erroneous decision that should be overturned and that abortion rights should be determined by the individual states.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 28 September 2016 at 12:00pm
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1892
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 7
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"That's sort of an understatement though, because low taxes (and resultant spending cuts) are the single biggest component of the Republican platform."
*************************************************
But the Republicans only pay lip service to spending cuts. When they have been in power, the Republicans cut taxes, maybe cut a few low dollar social programs that go against their doctrine (e.g., safe injection sites, Planned parenthood, etc) but by and large the government spending continues unchanged (or even more for the military) and larger deficits are the result. Voters who want a true fiscally conservative government have been frustrated for many years now.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15817
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 8
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I see Trump as being more of a Reaganite than anything else. He believes in trickle-down economics (the voodoo economics mentioned at the beginning of Ferris Bueller!), small government, lower income tax and CGT and less regulation.
A main divergence with Reagan are the prevailing economic situation: Reagan was facing high inflation and unemployment in the early 80s and we have historically low inflation and unemployment now (surprising, given we had the financial crisis so recently).
Difficult to know whether Trump believes in these policies because he actually believes they will work, or because they will simply benefit his company and family or whether he is nostalgic and remembers the mid-80s and Reagonomics as a halcyon time when his business was booming.
Edited by Peter Martin on 28 September 2016 at 1:26pm
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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Fred Chamberlain wrote:
A vote for Johnson is not a vote for Trump or Clinton. While one could argue that it may hold sway, the two
scenarios are not synonymous. |
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If you believe that the purpose of voting is to influence public policy in directions you would like it to go, the logical thing to do is vote for the candidate who
a. has views most closely resembling your own, and
b. has a realistic chance of winning
Regardless of whether one dislikes both Clinton and Trump, their policy positions are quite different, so no matter who you are you invariably must have a preference for the positions of one or the other, even if it's not a strong one.
Voting for a candidate who has no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate who does have a chance of winning and whose views are closer to yours. So in essence, voting for a candidate who has no chance of winning makes it more likely that policies which you dislike will be implemented. It becomes a de facto vote for the candidate and policies with which you most disagree.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 10
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Peter Martin wrote:
| Difficult to know whether Trump believes in these policies because he actually believes they will work, or because they will simply benefit his company and family or whether he is nostalgic and remembers the mid-80s and Reagonomics as a halcyon time when his business was booming. |
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Or the fourth option is simple political expediency... he endorses those policies because he believes it will help him win the election. It's difficult to believe Trump truly does believe in trickle-down economics, considering that as recently as 1999 he was proposing to eliminate the deficit via a one-time massive tax on the super-wealthy.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 28 September 2016 at 3:36pm
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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Again........ If I get the impression that Clintin will not take the state, I'll
cast a vote for her. I'm sickened by the two party system and will not be
voting for her otherwise.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 12
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Everyone else said, financially, I'd be hit much more negatively by
Clinton than Trump
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