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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 1
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I'm surprised Jesse Ventura hasn't made a run as an independent (how practical would that be?).
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 2
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Has anyone asked Donald Trump if HE knows what, and where, Aleppo is? (He'll probably say in the dog food aisle at the supermarket... :)
COROLLARY: As much as a lot of people wish otherwise, I don't think any independent has a dog's chance in this election, and their presence is going to be a non-vote for Clinton or Trump.
I don't believe third party politics in this country are going to come from the top. I believe they'll start in the local, city, and state elections and candidates. I think it's a process that needs to be built up until they are acknowledged and respected - much as Fox was with regards to ABC, CBS, and NBC (as a very gross example.)
Are you interested in a third party? Get behind 'em in your city, and convince others to join you. It CAN happen - but it won't be quick, and it won't be easy. I think it IS necessary, though, so let's get to work.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 3
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Trump's performance in the first debate may be insurmountable. If he goes to the second debate and performs poorly it could be the end of his campaign. I expect him to make excuses and possibly opt out. At the 45 minute mark I turned to my wife and said, "I think I could win a debate with this clown".
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 4
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He'll probably say in the dog food aisle at the supermarket
***
You're giving him a lot of credit. I doubt he knows much about supermarkets.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 5
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Eric (Sofer, not Ladd), do people already do that? It's a shame that people could be doing that locally, but, thanks to the media and other factors, Republicans and Democrats still reign supreme.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 6
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James: Why would anyone vote for a guy who doesn't know
what Aleppo is? That's ignorance on a monumental scale.
...because of the reality that one finds oneself in and the
choices available?
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3139
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 7
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Fred J Chamberlain wrote:
James: Why would anyone vote for a guy who doesn't know what Aleppo is? That's ignorance on a monumental scale.
...because of the reality that one finds oneself in and the choices available? |
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I agree with the sentiment (although I in general think the equating of Hillary and Trump is flat-out wrong), but I don't see that Johnson is the alternative. He's basically Republican light, and I suspect pretty strongly that his LIbertarian presidency with the current Congress and Supreme Court would look pretty much like Bush 44, part two. A cursory glance at the policy page on the Johnson/Weld site makes it all sound grand, but dig in to any of their points and it's almost indistinguishable from the Republican platform.
On a personal note, Johnson was a guest on Freakonomics the other day, and it's not an exaggeration to say that he began about 60% of his answers with the line, "What most Americans don't realize is..." I can't speak for anybody else, but a major turnoff for me with any politician is when they start with the assumption that they understand the problem better than the voter.
The specific moment Bernie Sanders lost me was when he answered a debate question on ISIS with a history lecture on American involvement in the Middle East. A little disappointing, since I appreciated his policies, but, boy howdy, his college lecturer's assumption that we'd all get with the program if only we were better informed BY HIM was offputting.
Edited by Dave Kopperman on 28 September 2016 at 9:43am
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 8
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@Thom Price - Oh sure, he knows what supermarkets are. He's built dozens of them. Actually, he had the original idea to put all those different food outlets into one building. And he'll make supermarkets great again. Just ask him.
@Robbie Parry - I have no doubt that this occurs locally, but it needs to be a concerted effort for one party. And it won't be fast, and it won't be easy. To paraphrase (broadly) Ben Franklin in "1776", we would be witnessing the birth of a new political party. And birth involves pain and blood. (Hopefully not too much blood...)
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 9
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I hope so because there should never be a two-party state in any nation. Or one-party state, either.
It's the entitlement I dislike. Almost like, and it happens in the UK, two parties feel they have a divine right to alternate government every 4-8 years or so.
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1891
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 9:26am | IP Logged | 10
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"A cursory glance at the policy page on the Johnson/Weld site makes it all sound grand, but dig in to any of their points and it's almost indistinguishable from the Republican platform."
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I'm a Canadian, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but my understanding is that Republicans only agree with Libertarians on low taxes. Libertarians are pro abortion, want to legalize various narcotics, and have no enthusiasm for deploying America's military overseas. The Libertarian candidates usually seem to be ex-Republicans who could not find room for their priorities in the long term within the GOP.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 11
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I'm a Canadian, so I don't have a dog in this fight...
***
We all have a dog in this fight, my friend, because if Trump is elected, well foreign policy and so much else seems fucked. :/
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Dave Kopperman
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| Posted: 28 September 2016 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 12
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Peter Hicks wrote:
| ...my understanding is that Republicans only agree with Libertarians on low taxes. Libertarians are pro abortion, want to legalize various narcotics, and have no enthusiasm for deploying America's military overseas. The Libertarian candidates usually seem to be ex-Republicans who could not find room for their priorities in the long term within the GOP. |
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Yes, there are differences, but the net result would be pretty similar to what the GOP has been aiming for - unregulated industry, no real social safety net, guns a'plenty. The abortion and immigration stances are different (and admirable on the part of the LP), but those are quickly becoming more dog whistle policies for the GOP base than anything else.
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Topic Closed)
