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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14819
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| Posted: 27 January 2017 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 1
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By pulling out of TPP and possibly dissolving NAFTA, Trump has
supported blue-collar Democrats in a way their own party never would.
----
No, he hasn't. Automation and low wages in China (which is not part of
the TPP) are what's killing those blue-collar jobs. Globalization is going
to happen with or without the US, so what Trump is doing is a lot of
chest-beating for jobs that aren't coming back in any significant way.
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David Allen Perrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3553
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 2
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Bernie Sanders wanted out of TPP and he wanted NAFTA to be rexamined. But he also wanted stronger unions, encreased minimum wage and a tax hike on the wealthiest citizens. Hillary supported these measures as well. She lost the WH obviously, BUT she got 3 million more votes than Trump so clearly the people aren't totally against these issues.
Everything Trump is doing is either taking a good thing out of the hands or ordinary people or putting more money in the hands of the rich. This is trickle down except its flowing Ike Niagra. And its tough to wade through all the BS about crowd sizes....AND the fact that this nation has banned millions of Muslim peoples from its shores.
Seriously, there is a ban on Muslims from 'certain' countries....but not the ones where terrorists have been proven to operate! Let that sink in.
But 'Morning Joe' and his band of bell ends thinks we are over exaggerating. |
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David Allen Perrin
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Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3553
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 3
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Just to put a fine point on it...This is a verbatim quote from Trump during his joint preser with British PM Theresa May. VERBATIM!
Read it...and weep. This man holds the world in his hands.
“We look to have a great relationship with all countries, ideally, unfortunately that won’t necessarily happen, unfortunately probably won’t happen with many countries, but if we could have as we do with Prime Minister May, and the relationship we’ve all developed, and even the short relationship that we’ve just developed, just by being with each other, and have lunch, and—we’ve really had some very interesting talks, some very productive talks. But if we can have a great relationship with Russia, and with China, and with all countries, I’m all for that, that would be a tremendous asset.”
Yikes!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 4
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We are indeed fucked.
Amendment 25, sec 4 - the "President is incompetent" clause - may have been in a lot of Republicans' minds. Trump could easily have been left out of a meeting or two or - what the hell - he may have been BEHIND it. "Give me a few yuge months and then bring this up. Pence will be in, I'll move on - even wealthier - and even those dumb democrats will be satisfied. It'll be GREAT."
Good lord, please help me get "Ding Dong, the Witch Is Dead" out of my head...
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Mark Waldman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 5
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Sadly I think the only solution is keeping active, calling him on everything, protesting, etc. If we lay down we are dead. Mid-terms don't look promising either. I was chatting with a very smart politically minded friend and he said the only hope (in addition to what I said at the top) is to run a more popular celebrity against him. Can you imagine Bruce Springsteen running? Or George Clooney? Bruce would likely take away a lot of red state votes. Sadly, it's come to this. Let's face it, the old system is gone. There can't be anymore two adults debating respectfully - that option is past.
Another thing my friend pointed out was probably the most effective way to change things is to convince Trump supporters they were lied to. For example, if this wall is built, it might mean some jobs in Texas and other border states, but what will it do for the job situation in the rust belt? To convince those supporters, "Hey, look at the jobs in Texas - you aren't getting those", might mean more than just yelling at one another. There is already a site for tweets from those who are already having buyer's remorse for voting for Trump. I think disillusioned supporters is the most likely way to change the tide.
I think once Trump's popularity drops, and Ryan and McConnell feel they got enough of their agenda rammed through by the orange one, they will see his usefulness over and not protect him during impeachment. Of course you then get Pence, but he's more of a known commodity, and likely would replace most of Trump's crazy cabinet picks.
Bring on the Boss!
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17997
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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I was referring to Bush and those who cheered on his adventures in Iraq, Kevin, not you. --Thank you. I apologize for taking it as a personal swipe. I think the big difference is that President GW Bush at least had some plausible deniability going forward. A case could even be made that he was lied to by Cheney or that he lied to himself. Once Saddam Hussein had worn out his usefulness to the U.S., we did have an interest in who would lead the post-SH Iraq. Uday and Qusay were too unstable. But accelerating the process near-unilaterally was the disaster, a naked power grab in the eyes of the world. And yet it's STILL more normal than anything I have seen from President Trump. He's a diaper fire.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 7
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http://www.npr.org/2017/01/28/511996783/how-does-trumps-immi gration-freeze-square-with-his-business-interests
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 8
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Protest at airports across the country.... this seems likely to be a weekly activity now.
Notice Trump's executive order didn't block people from Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia is where the 9/11 terrorists originated.... but Trump has lots of businesses in Saudi Arabia, so rules don't apply.
Trump's Muslim ban is a moral abomination. It is fundamentally un-American. Plus, it's dangerous - it will give more fuel to the terrorist movement and eventually get Americans killed.
Can't believe I'm watching this unfold.
UPDATE: Federal court for the Eastern District of New York issued an emergency stay halting Trump’s executive order banning entry to the US from seven majority-Muslim countries following protests at airports around the country.
-C!
Edited by Charles Valderrama on 28 January 2017 at 8:16pm
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2169
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| Posted: 28 January 2017 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 9
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A liberal party is pretty much worthless if it can't generate well-paying jobs.
What's the use of equal rights for everyone if we're all penniless? We would
be at each other's throats, all the same. By pulling out of TPP and possibly
dissolving NAFTA, Trump has supported blue-collar Democrats in a way
their own party never would.
______
I agree jobs are important Joe but so are civil rights, the environment, etc. I
don't think it's an either or choice though, it's not as if under Obama
everyone was penniless. Things could be better of course and I hope Trump
does create jobs but not at the expense of civil rights and the tolerance that
this country is supposed to be about.
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8846
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| Posted: 29 January 2017 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 10
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Ok, folks, I'm at the point that I hate being proven right:
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17997
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| Posted: 29 January 2017 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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It's hard to believe it can filter down that fast into our institutions - until you look at how rapidly the rot set in with everyday citizens.
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James Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2067
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| Posted: 29 January 2017 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 12
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Let's see....
Gerrymandering of voter districts
False/Fake/Faux/Fox News
Xenophobia
Afraid of Muslims
Thinking that exported jobs will return
Democratic Candidates afraid to campaign in VERY rural areas
The Electoral college
Get rid of Hispanics
Being educated is LIBERAL talk
and an idiot who is now President!!
How can anything go wrong?!?!?!?!?!?!
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