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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 May 2017 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 1  

"you're still far more likely to be murdered by your spouse, knocked down by a bus or possibly impaled by an icicle of frozen urine falling from a passing plane than to be killed in a terrorist incident."

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That's a common fallacy. There is no international organization of murderous spouses. Bus drivers do not go to work with the intent of running down people. Airline companies don't conspire to kill people (though they might through neglect or greed). And so on. 




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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | 2  

 Marco Ferreira wrote:
but every time a child dies because of an incident with guns, I see so many people screaming for gun control, and when a child dies because of an islamic terror attack I have to read rationalization as if Islamic terrorism was just a fact of life.


You're acting like the opposite isn't true, too.

It's the same problem, though. You jail everyone who expresses a certain attitude and you end up with a police state, which will just make the problem worse. You don't have the resources to monitor all of the "maybes" so you have to pick and choose and hope for the best. If you're lucky you'll catch someone after they're definitively planning something but before they get to the execution phase.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 3  

Gun manufacturers and terrorists have something in common: their job is to make their "product" as deadly as possible. 
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | 4  

"Lest we forget, Saddam Hussein was the West's 'guy' until Kuwait."

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Let's go back in time for a bit. In the 80's the U.S., Saudi Arabia and Pakistan cooperated to defend Afghanistan from the Soviet Union. Then the U.S. defeated Saddam, preserving Kuwait and the Gulf States. While self-serving, U.S. policy was protective of Arabs and the Muslim world. Which was taken positively by Muslims, except for one particular group. Islamic fundamentalists were deeply offended by the presence of U.S. troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, which in their eyes made Christians protectors of the Islamic holy places. Which is a big no-no. For that and other reasons, Osama bin Laden, a former ally of the U.S., plotted the 9/11 attacks. 

In essence, all this terror came from the U.S. helping out the Muslim world, but in a way that did not comply with the requirements of Muslim fundamentalists. Which in the annals of history, is beyond crazy. 



Edited by Joe Zhang on 24 May 2017 at 6:01pm
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Marcio Ferreira
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Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 5  

It is in times like this that I am 100% sure that I would be a super villain.
If I had the power of, let's say, superman, I can assure that in the world would be of short supply of religious material.
Maybe that is why I love Hulk, I would probably be a lot like Maestro.
I would not accept living in a world where people Kill in name of religion beliefs.
No sir.

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Steve De Young
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Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 6  

Some of the most brutal repression of LGBT people is done under the banner of Christianity.
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Yes, this is why in nearly every majority Christian country in the world, same sex marriage is legal, while in nearly every majority Muslim country in the world, homosexuality receives a death penalty.

Silly moral equivalence is silly.  Though I have to admit, using gay rights as an argument that Islam isn't so bad is definitely a power move. 

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 7  

Islamic apologists often mistake similarities with equivalences. You'd almost think it is deliberate. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 24 May 2017 at 6:41pm
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David Miller
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Posted: 25 May 2017 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 8  

The United States has slaughtered more people in the Middle East than will ever die in the United States at Middle Eastern hands. By an order of magnitude. To this day half the country thinks it was a good thing, and further thinks we should do it again, in Iraq and in Syria.

Every time terrorists kill a few dozen Western civilians, Americans demand Muslims accept collective responsibility and deserve collective punishments. 

But what kind of collective responsibility do Americans accept? None. Despite that our free society means that productive taxpayers like me have a voice in our wars, and a hand in paying for it, while the vast majority of those Iraqi civilians who died at our hands had none in the terrorist actions that supposedly inspired us.

We can't even get American Christians to renounce torture.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 25 May 2017 at 3:44am | IP Logged | 9  

"The United States has slaughtered more people in the Middle East than will ever die in the United States at Middle Eastern hands. "

Again with the false equivalences. If you want it to be fair, compare apples to apples. 

ISIS may have already killed far more Middle Easterners than America has. 

When America conquered Iraq and bits of Afghanistan, we knew when to stop. We tried to create infrastructure and democratic governments. Incompetently and corruptly, but we tried. We spent upwards of a trillion dollars, lost thousands of soldiers, and got nothing back.

When ISIS took over, the barbarity didn't stop. Entire villages were wiped out for being the wrong race, religion, or sect. Women and children were enslaved and sold as sex slaves. Hostages were beheaded and burned alive on camera. And that still wasn't enough. They inspired and organized attacks inside France and other European countries that wanted nothing and had nothing to do with the Iraq war. 

Yeah, there is a war going on between the West and the Middle East. Bloody hands everywhere. But what the hell did tiny little countries like the Netherlands or Sweden do to deserve ISIS wrath, other than shelter and accept their refugees? 


Edited by Joe Zhang on 25 May 2017 at 5:14am
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David Miller
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Posted: 25 May 2017 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 10  

Apparently we all look alike to the terrorists. Maybe they mixed the countries up, the way you mixed the Netherlands up with a country that didn't participate in the Iraq invasion. 

As long as Westerners assert their right to not bother differentiating between Muslims, we can't claim a high ground when Muslims don't bother differentiating between Westerners. 

According the UN, ISIS kills approximately 10,000 people a year. As of 2013, victims of the Iraq war exceeded 500,000. That's on us. ISIS are monsters, yet they have a way to go to match our butcher's bill. 

The United States did not "know when to stop." The United States planned to serially topple unfriendly Middle East governments; Iran was next on the list before Iraq became a quagmire. 

Who gives a fuck about the money we wasted half-assing infrastructure construction? The United States destroyed the infrastructure, then stood back and let it be destroyed some more. And remember, a goodly amount of those trillions of dollars was paid into American pockets. 

During the primary campaign, all but two of the Republican candidates called for relaxing the rules of engagement in favor of higher civilian casualties. Now Trump is president, and sure enough the United States is killing more civilians again, like the heroes we are. And there's that $110 Saudi arms deal we're so proud of this week. The Unite States is committed to being a force for instability and violence. 

It remains ridiculous for Americans to demand notarized apologies from every single one of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims whenever a mall explodes, while in answer for our own crimes Americans bleat about good intentions and whine, "Why do they hate us?" 
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 25 May 2017 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 11  

My inappropriate flippancy probably obscured that point, for which I apologise

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No need to apologise - - I wasn't disagreeing with the wider premise of your argument. In fact, I quite agree. My small pedantic point was simply that death by frozen urine may be more urban myth than reality.

Your argument that the odds of death by terrorism are small enough that we shouldn't ruin our way of life by way of fear is valid.
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Steve De Young
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Posted: 25 May 2017 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 12  

It remains ridiculous for Americans to demand notarized apologies from every single one of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims whenever a mall explodes, while in answer for our own crimes Americans bleat about good intentions and whine, "Why do they hate us?" 
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When a group I'm associated with does something I disagree with, let alone something terrible, I make it publically known that I disagree with it and why.  If its terrible enough, I disassociate.

That's all I've ever expected from Muslims.  I haven't gotten it.
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