| Author |
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132400
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 1
|
post reply
|
|
Remember, too, that Spider-Man would be at a psychological disadvantage, up against this mythic figure.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 2
|
post reply
|
|
By coincidence, I just read Justice League of America #103 last night, written by Len Wein. In it, Batman goes up against a Rutland, Vermont costume parade participant who's possessed by a demon, granting him the powers of Spider-Man. While Green Lantern intercedes, muddling the outcome of the confrontation, Batman does acknowledge that he'll have to keep ahead of Spidey's webbing if he hopes to win.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 3
|
post reply
|
|
How did I not know about that, Brian?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 4
|
post reply
|
|
Robbie, if you Google "marvel DC Rutland Vermont" no doubt you'll come across numerous mentions of these annual Halloween stealth-crossovers from both companies. They also include a goodly number of appearances by creators from both companies, if you're into that sort of thing.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 5
|
post reply
|
|
I think it's interesting that Batman in that panel acknowledges that there is a "real" version of the web-slinger he's facing. Early evidence that the creators of that time, or Wein at least, felt the characters of both companies were operating in the same world, perhaps...?
Prior to the Wolfman/Perez JLA/Avengers crossover, the "DC/Marvel All Access" series personified the two universes as living entities and estranged brothers. Except for Roy Thomas speaking through the Watcher to suppose a dual "crossover Earth," I don't recall there being any dimensional barriers in place prior to this...
Edited by Brian Hague on 10 May 2018 at 12:03pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 6
|
post reply
|
|
Thanks, Brian, I shall Bing them (I prefer Bing. Is Bing a verb? Does it matter?)!
The ones I do recall are a Clark Kent-style character showing up in various Marvel comics, e.g. THE MIGHTY THOR. Never named, but clearly a journalist and looked like Clark.
EDIT: I don't recall any dimension barriers prior to that, either.
I liked DC VS MARVEL to a certain extent, e.g. the battles, the art, etc. But a little piece of me "died" when separate universes were mentioned, given that I'd grown up with the shared earth premise.
Edited by Robbie Parry on 10 May 2018 at 1:54pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4726
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 7
|
post reply
|
|
One of the best DC/Marvel crossovers to me was JB's Batman and Captain America.... set in the '40's and in the same universe. No explanation necessary. Heck we even had a nice nod to GENERATIONS at the end.
As for Batman vs. Spidey, I have to give it to the Dark Knight.
Question for JB - any other DC/Marvel character crossovers you would've been interested in producing?
-C!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 8
|
post reply
|
|
Brian H. and Robbie, I'll back up that the first four DC/Marvel crossovers had no implications that there was any "split" between their universes. I can't think of any others.
I remember Clark Kent's appearance in Marvel Team-Up #79 and X-Men Annual #10 (I think.). I know there are other crossovers (I seem to recall that the X-Men mocked wholesale the DC series "Invasion!" - but I was SO FAR out of X-Men by then that I could have just had a nightmare.)
I remember several incidental clothing crossovers - Batman, Superman, Spider-Man shirts, which didn't violate a thing - not when I could buy the darned things on the street the same day.
DC vs Marvel had interesting moments, and Amalgam was a lot of fun - to me, anyhow. But the results of the votes... I dunno. Storm BEATS Wonder Woman? What the hell...?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132400
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 9
|
post reply
|
|
One of the best DC/Marvel crossovers to me was JB's Batman and Captain America.... set in the '40's and in the same universe. No explanation necessary. Heck we even had a nice nod to GENERATIONS at the end.••• A nod forward. In one of the most satisfying "make lemonade" moments of my career, GENERATIONS happened because sudden friction between Marvel and DC meant I could not do my planned JSA/Invaders as a sequel to BAT/CAP.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
|
| Posted: 10 May 2018 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 10
|
post reply
|
|
Amalgam was a great deal of fun, Eric, and I had a blast coming up with Amalgamated characters for the next few years. I had already been doing mix n' match style characters before that, but Amalgam definitely lit a fire in me. As for the voting, I believe every outcome could have been predicted beforehand based on simple popularity. Storm was a big screen movie character and Wonder Woman was from television; 1970's television, no less. There was no chance readers of that time were going to back her.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
|
| Posted: 11 May 2018 at 4:32am | IP Logged | 11
|
post reply
|
|
This is not about "unbeatable" Batman. This is about weighing the skill sets of two characters and deciding which would win in a fight. That done, Batman would beat Spider-Man.* Galactus, not so much.
Makes it hard not to consider him unbeatable when he can beat Spider-Man and Superman and has to move all the way up to Galactus to face his better.
Isn't Batman at a stage where "he'd find a way" trumps any opponent? It seems ludicrous to me.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132400
|
| Posted: 11 May 2018 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 12
|
post reply
|
|
Let's consider a few points. • Batman is not real, he is a fictional character. • As a fictional character, he is not bound by the rules that govern we mere mortals. He behaves as if he is, but that's verisimilitude. We know that it would be virtually impossible for him to function in the real world. As "clever" writers and artists love to point out, the cape alone would be a fairly major handicap. • Allowing for the verisimilitude, then, our willing suspension of disbelief allows us to accept the things he does. It also allows us to set aside our certain knowledge that, no matter what the odds, he will always win. THIS TIME, the story asks us to think, he MIGHT NOT. • Finally, allowing for the nature of this kind of serial fiction, each story must be considered in isolation. We KNOW he's beaten the Joker a hundred times before, but we allow ourselves to sink into each story and accept its particular tropes. The moment we are not able or willing to do that, it is time for us to move on.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
