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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 1
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Is there any reason that The Falcon or James Rhodes should not have been played by an actor of a different race in the MCU? What in those movies defined them as needing to be black characters? Nothing overtly that I recall other than that was how the original creators intended them.
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2175
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 2
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Maybe they can add a thing where Bond regenerates like Doctor Who. So instead of being a misogynist borderline-sociopath anti-hero "I get to break the rules" fantasy, he can be changed into whatever passes for a "Woke" representation that year. Or is that ultra-cynical?
[Edited to add]: It occurs to me that if James Bond is a title and anybody can assume it, then with the right licensing, Doctor Who could in fact be the next James Bond.
Edited by Conrad Teves on 26 May 2018 at 6:55pm
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 3
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I don't think making Bond black will make him "woke". Being a being a misogynist borderline-sociopath anti-hero "I get to break the rules" fantasy isn't defined by skin color. ************************************************************ **************************** Is there any reason that The Falcon or James Rhodes should not have been played by an actor of a different race in the MCU? What in those movies defined them as needing to be black characters? Nothing overtly that I recall other than that was how the original creators intended them. ************************************************************ ************************ Since they're barely characters in the MCU , probably not. They're almost the same character! Sam as a social worker/community activist would have help him stand out as something different.
But on a more serious note, making a couple black characters white has a different impact that making a couple of white characters black. I'll let you figure out why,
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2175
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 4
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Mike>>I don't think making Bond black will make him "woke". Being a being a misogynist borderline-sociopath anti-hero "I get to break the rules" fantasy isn't defined by skin color. <<
I wasn't suggesting that it was any more than you are suggesting there needs to be more black misogynist borderline-sociopaths in movies. The idea is that people want to "adjust" these characters to make them fit better with what they (as the audience) aesthetically like, rather than what the author intended for a calculated set of reasons. Fiction is a monologue, not an interactive sandbox.
It's an advantage video games have over other media and why people say a game has "a great story." Of course a player would think that: the narrative was constructed entirely out of choices they made. The character I played was so cool. The designers made sure you had enough choices that that could be true. The Shepard from Mass Effect that fans know and love was literally different for each of them.
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 5
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Fiction is a monologue, not an interactive sandbox. ************************************************************ ********************** But with characters like Bond and superheroes more than one person gets a chance at the mic. They get to riff on the character.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132303
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 6
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Nicholas Cage as the Black Panther. Discuss.
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 7
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There seems to be an issue with people reading things into my comments that are not there. I never implied anything about making those characters white, there is more than black and white when talking race. I tried to find two quick examples because it was said it was hard to think of. My point was, even though there is no reason to exclude race change due to how they are portrayed, it does not mean it should done.
Edited by Michael Sommerville on 26 May 2018 at 7:39pm
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 8
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Nicholas Cage as the Black Panther. Discuss. ************************************************************ ****************** Already covered.
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2175
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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JB>>Nicholas Cage as the Black Panther. Discuss.<<
Not the bees!
Melissa McCarthy as Wonder Woman. Peter Dinklage as her costume.
When I was a kid, I remember BSing with friends about 'spensive cars. The name "Maserati" came up. Later I dreamed of Maseratis. Since I didn't actually know what one looked like, I dreamed of something like a Ford 4-door sedan with "Maserati" painted on the side in big letters. <-not really a Maserati. Form matters.
The reason a character was made white may be as simple as target audience. Ever notice how most of the characters in Japanese movies are Japanese? Or while the Legion of Superheroes is largely alien, they look awfully Caucasian? Target audience. A more diverse target audience likely requires a more diverse bunch of characters. But changing an existing character to achieve this is just leveraging the branding. It's the height of cynicism. It's not a character, just a product.
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 10
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Part of it might be "target" audience but mostly it was the idea of a non white leading characters just didn't dawn on them. Even the idea that non whites might be reading the comics wasn't on their radar.
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Robert Shepherd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 March 2014 Location: United States Posts: 1268
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 11
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I have to wonder if up and coming writers are changing character races to match the civil movement?
I'm a big fan of creator intent as well. Creator intent should always trump fan retconning.
Oh....Bond is a character not a title. Anyone thinking otherwise is trying to retcon the character to fit their own personal agenda.
Make new characters!
Edited by Robert Shepherd on 26 May 2018 at 8:02pm
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 26 May 2018 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | 12
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I would, but Africa is a real place. The Nine Realms aren't. People have different expectations when dealing with some place real, even when the place within that place is fictional.
I still don't see why Norse Gods are racially interchangeable but fictional Africans from an isolated, futuristic, alien powered city need to stay "realistic".
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