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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132303
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Posted: 19 July 2018 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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Mark Zukerberg et al on the Holocaust: LINK These zeebs need to learn that only a government can censor, and if Facebook wants to take a stand against Holocaust deniers and other scum that would be corporate policy not "censorship".
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 19 July 2018 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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Social media is generally horrible and I wish it didn't exist, but if it must, I'd invoke anti-trust laws to break up Facebook. Nationalization isn't an option -- it would allow for even more direct government violation of our civil liberties.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4530
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Posted: 19 July 2018 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 3
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I found it very bizarre how he was saying it could be "an honest mistake" someone was making about the holocaust. An honest mistake repeated all over the internet! Especially coming from someone with what I'm thinking would be a Jewish family name. That's a bit along the lines of someone getting strange about hearing Spanish spoken in Arizona.
Corporate policy would only go so far, or else you're back to refusing service to black people and all that mess we'd hope was done with by the 1970s. You can/should have a policy against serving as a platform for deliberate hate inciting material and be within the laws of the land and community you are conducting business in, but you can't say no blacks or Jews or whatever. Denying the holocaust is not something someone is born as doing. You can ban littering, intoxication, nudity, yelling, smoking, but not breast-feeding, guide-dogs, turbans, lengths of hair.
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Karl Wiebe Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 December 2015 Location: Canada Posts: 172
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Posted: 19 July 2018 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 4
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I read the article but I am not sure if the thread is about the language used (censorship vs. Corporate policy) or if there is a larger question being raised about the right to free speech in a forum or platform. Or maybe the issue is that even having a discussion about limiting speech is being used as a possible way to "prove" that employees are supportive of such speech?
Edited by Karl Wiebe on 19 July 2018 at 5:58pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132303
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Posted: 19 July 2018 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 5
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There is no "right" to free speech on a privately owned platform. An incident at DC demonstrated this decades ago, when they rejected a Superman story Steve Englehart had written. There were cries of CENSORSHIP, but Englehart merely rewrote it with a different character and took it somewhere else. True censorship would have prevented that.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132303
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Posted: 20 July 2018 at 4:59am | IP Logged | 6
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Corporate policy would only go so far, or else you're back to refusing service to black people and all that mess we'd hope was done with by the 1970s. •• Businesses should have the right to refuse service to anyone they choose, and customers should have the right to boycott businesses whose polices are abhorrent to them.
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Michael Casselman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1220
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Posted: 20 July 2018 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 7
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Facebook is now putting up 'fake news' warnings on selected news stories. Trouble is, they're putting these warnings on obvious satire sites, which may include such outlets as The Onion. I'm not sure I want to live in a world where satire is lumped in with 'fake news'. Or a world where people can't tell the difference.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132303
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Posted: 20 July 2018 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 8
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If people could tell the difference, SNOPES would be about half as busy. Sadly, anyone can post anything, and know it will be repeated and rehashed, both in and out of context.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4530
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Posted: 20 July 2018 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 9
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Corporations still exist within nations, and businesses and are not above their laws, even that do business solely online, else there'd be no lawsuits over discrimination and liability. There are some in the U.S. that want to change that and subject employees and customers to religious requirements, and unfortunately they're finding a few footholds now thanks to the stacking of courts with people graduated from religion based law schools and with affiliations to supposed non-profit groups (Heritage Foundation, Pat Robertson linked activist organizations). What's going on now with far less attention than the screaming child at the border picture received will affect the U.S. for decades. Expect to be grilled over your willingness to accept Christ more often in order to work for Chik-Fil-A or Hobby Lobby, but hey, you can go elsewhere, or another country... that's going to be the new 'freedom' along with this shop is for Halal Muslims only who place Shari'a law above the nations, which is what these radical Christians are opening the door to along with their pet things if they'd ever stop to reflect... and after all the hysteria about the ridiculously named 'ground zero' mosque I'm thinking you will see ever more masses of outraged and divided people in the street. Traffic may never move again at some point. :^)
Slip slide and away. Now we have someone powerful with a Jewish name saying maybe holocaust deniers are making an honest mistake... unthinkable not too long ago. And if you try to regulate the internet (regulation = protection) oooh that's 'censorship', never mind restore any teeth to the FCC over what gets broadcast on tv and radio... so how's the corporations regulating themselves thing working out for you neighbor? Don't you think the people most wanting to sell you on self-regulations are not the most non-partisan people around?
Look, I'm not saying Corporations are evil and government is perfectly unbiased, but we've seen a lot of power away from oversight and toward private motivated individuals and at some point the balance will have to change because this is so clearly not working. It's not just a matter of Facebook becoming more 'sensitive' and 'aware' and one guy figuring things out, eventually you might hope about holocaust denying junk. The government is meant to represent you and balance out a wild west anything goes and let's find out the hard way approach. Things are going backwards, to when things were great according to some, but most people can see progress is further away than ever. I've never been on Facebook or twitter, I wouldn't give away my power or information to them for access to 'their' audience. People need to really watch who they empower with their votes and in other ways. I am not going to empower someone who is obviously a fanatic about anything, and let's say someone was/could be 'forced' to make a cake... lord, what a horrific imposition that would be, but that's just sheer ridiculous extreme hyperbole. Please come back from the edge of this cliff U.S.A.! Please be open to learning and seeing how sustainability and balance are better than divided extremes.
Zuckerberg is about as much of a genius as the guy claiming to be a best-selling author with a strange affection for murdering tyrants is. :^(
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 20 July 2018 at 10:43am
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