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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4557
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Posted: 21 August 2018 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | 1
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The ideal is something that leads into the story inside and still looks like a poster... Like X-Men #114, 129, 133, 134, 135, 136, 141, Captain America #254, Avengers #187, Fantastic Four #260, Iron Man #109.
Robbie, i think you were thinking of Spectacular Spider-Man #101.
https://anyeventuality.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/1985-04-s pectacularspider-man101-john-byrne.jpg
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 21 August 2018 at 10:39pm
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 4:24am | IP Logged | 2
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That's the one. Thanks, Rebecca!
Something like that stood out at the time, but I would not have wanted that kind of cover each month.
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 5:22am | IP Logged | 3
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An interview with Neal Adams produced an idea about covers. There are story covers and iconic covers. He suggested the reason why he was sought after to draw covers was that he knew how to make them both. While not exceptionally humble, he's not wrong. In fact my favorite artists tend to be able to pull this off. JB, Alan Davis, Walt Simonson, Howard Chaykin, George Perez, Jack Kirby all knew how to make a cover fill both roles.
The Punisher cover displayed here is an iconic cover only. Its a nice drawing of the character but you dont get squat about the story.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11252
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 4
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This is what sells comics!
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 5
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Jabari Lamar wrote:
Their Target Audience are not kids, or some mythical casual readers who just wander into a comic-book shop and browse the racks. It's the hardcore fans, the mostly middle-aged men who've been reading all of their lives. They don't need to try to hook them with some dynamic cover, because those fans have read all the previews online and know what's coming (the solicitations for November went online today), and have therefor made their decision about what they're going to buy before they've entered the store, and just go to those, if they don't have a pull-list. The crossovers, decompressed storylines, reboots and renumbering it's all aimed at maintaining those existing fans. Not cultivating new ones. |
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True. And that is where the problem lies. Where are the new sales coming from?
Like most here, I found the likes of ACTION COMICS and THE INCREDIBLE HULK in newsagents, grocery stores, railway station shops, etc. And covers like the one I shared, and Rebecca and Bill shared, hooked me.
I am not entirely sure I'd have been hooked by generic poses. One of the first solo Punisher titles I remember seeing on the shelves was this one:
Prior to that issue, I'd only seen Punisher in other people's books. But I picked this one up.
Why? We had several bad guys, all armed, coming down some steps - and a lone Punisher ready to take them all on. In my head, several questions "popped in". Who are they? What's their angle? Will even Punisher be able to take out five armed bad guys? What's the story?
That is what hooked me. I'm not alone. Bill has shared a cover. Rebecca mentioned some. I picked up this at a car boot sale years ago:
Again, I had to buy it.
Why has Superman turned bad? What's the story? And how on earth is a non-powered Batman going to be able to stop a super-powered Superman from throwing him off a building? Who wouldn't want to pick that up?
Edited by Robbie Parry on 22 August 2018 at 7:53am
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 6
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ITEM: Robbie, The Adventures of Superman is Jerry Ordway's take on Superman #14, I believe (and I hope the image posts here!)
ITEM: Certainly a combination cover would (at one time) have been the best of both worlds. But that's kinda hard to pull off. I might think of Fantastic Four #25, The Thing vs. The Hulk, as one of those. Of course, Jack Kirby did a LOT of books like that. FF #48 and 49 also falls in that collection. Avengers #50 by Mr. Buscema is the same. They CAN be done, but expertise is required.
ITEM: In the end, I fear that the covers are not the big issue with super hero comics sales. We can all reel off several factors that ARE the problems. And I don't think that modifying the covers will help much. IF the books were readily available to the public, it MIGHT help... but I believe that comics are just too far down the rabbit hole to make their way back out.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 7
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Eric, you're right. I mean, the problems raised in this topic are only ONE symptom of a wider problem.
The other symptoms are comics being exclusively sold in specialist stores, the direct market, the lack of standalone tales, etc. Even the price, too. I'm not a miser, but for less than a quid years ago, you got a complete story with a LOT of word and thought balloons. And sometimes a back-up strip. They took a while to read.
Two books are out today that intrigue me: THE PUNISHER #1 and WEST COAST AVENGERS #1. Around £3+ each, so to buy two would be six quid or more. It's not that I am a miser, but £3+ for what may be an incomplete tale is a lot. Why wouldn't I wait for the trade to collect six issues together (trades can be between £12-14)? I want to support single issues, but...
It's not a perfect comparison, but take DVDs. I tend to buy most shows on DVD or Blu-ray now. But let's imagine there was a six-issue mini-series shown on, say, USA Network. What if you could buy one episode on a disc for a few quid? Would you? Or would you just wait for the distributor to package together the six episodes in one boxset?
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Brian Rhodes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3309
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 8
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1) Hire the old pros and let them do their thing: JB, Walt Simonson, George Perez...
2) Covers. With blurbs and words and action poses and scenes ostensibly from the story inside
3) Make the books truly all-ages, again. Don't dumb it down, in any fashion. Meaning, dialogue need not be simplifed nor profanity-laced.
3) Stick the books in...book stores! They still exist, yes? Also, convenience stores, grocery stores, department stores...movie theaters!
4) Here's something I saw done, quite recently: Advertise on TV. I think it was when Superman got his trunks back, an issue was advertised during the Supergirl show. Brilliant.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 9
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Someone on that private FB group I once mentioned told me that word balloons, thought balloons and logos would detract from cover art. He's the only one I have 'heard' express that view.
Did anyone, decades ago, have a problem with that? Did anyone ever complain that a logo, word balloon or thought balloon was taking away from the art?
He's entitled to his view, but he mentioned wanting to appreciate the art. Why not just buy a poster?
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11252
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 11:42am | IP Logged | 10
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Is the lack of blurb, hype and scenes from within a sign that publishers are trying to make comics seem like high art instead of actual comic books? If people want the art unadulterated, maybe the publishers could print a text free version on the inside back cover, or even as a centre spread? If it`s cost prohibitive, maybe a printable download instead?
Another bugbear regarding the covers bearing no relation to the story within...beautifully rendered covers, awful cartoony, blocky, simplistic art inside!
Also, four or six part storylines, designed for the trade, with a different artist each issue, it`s so jarring, why not assign each artist their own four or six issue arc, then only publish once they are finished?
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 11
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It might be cost-prohibitive, Bill, but although I do always try and see things from other people's views, I am getting a tad tired (not with anyone here!) of those who want pin-up covers.
If they want pin-up covers every month, BUY A POSTER. Not only will it be bigger, but you won't have to rip your cover off. Posters can be cool!
In response to Eric's points, I mentioned how it's only a symptom. But I really don't see how such generic pin-up covers could possibly attract new blood. I can honestly say, and I'm sure I am not alone, that a lot of comic covers hooked me.
Circa 1988, I picked up EAGLE because of this cover:
At that point, I hadn't read EAGLE for a few years (the "modern" version had launched in 1982). But here was a cover featuring a terrifying-looking guy firing eye beams at a London bus. Why wouldn't I pick it up?
Although the UK comic industry is "small potatoes" compared to the US comic industry, action-packed covers aren't exactly a lost art here. Here's the cover for the current issue (#399) of JUDGE DREDD MEGAZINE:
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John Cole Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 March 2008 Location: United States Posts: 506
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Posted: 22 August 2018 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 12
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Why hasn't Disney started offering comics in their own stores it would be a good way to entice children into reading them?
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