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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132330
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| Posted: 21 February 2019 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 1
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And, sorry, but that's part of the problem. Editors these days either pander to the entrenched fans, or blow stuff up knowing those same entrenched fans will buy it anyway. Ah, for the days when the average fan lasted about five years, and there was a constant influx of new blood.
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Trevor Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 June 2015
Posts: 346
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| Posted: 21 February 2019 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 2
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Ah, for the days when the average fan lasted about five years, and there was a constant influx of new blood. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ That was me. 84' to 88. I was an avid collector then slowly became disinterested (especially when I started going to high-school. Tried to get back into it in my teens but it was the 90s and comics seemed iincomprehensible compared to what I was used to back in the 80s.
I distinctly remember look at a book, I think it was Generation X and telling the comic book store owner how the art was bad and it was better in the 80s. Of course, he disagreed.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 21 February 2019 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 3
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I got tired of ideology agendas being
pushed before story.
When we got stories, they seemed more akin
to WHAT IF books than actual stories.
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Oliver Denker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 August 2018
Location: Germany
Posts: 210
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 3:00am | IP Logged | 4
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"If your question is what Marvel did narratively to justify their return, I don't know. I guess they made up some excuse in a great event, but It's been a while since I don't care about this kind of things."
Yes, that was my question :), but thanks for your answer. Last time I held a Spider-man comic in my hands, Peter Parker was running an global tech company. I put it right back.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 4:19am | IP Logged | 5
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I was a straight through from 1984 - 1999, but I think that's because in that period there was longevity and consistency with some of the books I read and their creators. Such as the Superman titles, which I dropped in 1999 after Dan Jurgens left as I saw that as the end of the 86 Superman era.
No matter your thoughts on certain runs / characters when will we see 5+ year runs again that we got from the likes of Mark Gruenwald, Peter David, Roger Stern, Chuck Dixon and Doug Moench? That will never happen again.
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 474
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 4:23am | IP Logged | 6
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Answering Oliver, with great power comes great responsibility. Some villain used his tech for some evil thing and then Doc Ock would use the tech for his evil things so Peter chose to save lives and broke the company in the process, losing everything. I don't remember very well, I guess I read it, oh, last month. The point was that Peter was a hero but people now hated him, in the way that people used to hate Spider-Man.
Edited by Mario Ribeiro on 22 February 2019 at 4:24am
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 474
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 4:36am | IP Logged | 7
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No matter your thoughts on certain runs / characters when will we see 5+ year runs again that we got from the likes of Mark Gruenwald, Peter David, Roger Stern, Chuck Dixon and Doug Moench? That will never happen again.
++++
No matter your thoughts on certain runs, there are quite a few long runs out there. If I'm not wrong Bendis wrote more Avengers issues than anybody else. Straczynski and Slott had very long runs in Spider-Man. Brubaker's Captain America. Even the smaller runs tend to go for about 36 issues. Forget writing for the trade, these guys are writing for the Omnibus!
Edited by Mario Ribeiro on 22 February 2019 at 4:41am
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 5:43am | IP Logged | 8
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The cost of following Marvel's line of comics is out of reach for me and I have become economically disenfranchised. I demand that Marvel make their product free for me, in the cause of social justice.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 22 February 2019 at 5:44am
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Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4178
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 9
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Greg McPhee wrote:
| No matter your thoughts on certain runs / characters when will we see 5+ year runs again that we got from the likes of Mark Gruenwald, Peter David, Roger Stern, Chuck Dixon and Doug Moench? That will never happen again. |
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That's not really true; there are longer runs out there. Of course, what HAS changed is that you don't seem to get the simplicity of a run going from #232-293, #227-286, etc., especially at Marvel. Now it's (to use Jason Aaron's Thor as an example):
#1-25, #1-8, #1-4, #1-23, #700-706, #1-10+ (plus a special, two five issue mini-series and a six issue mini-series). (Really weird to see a letter in a recent issue of Thor expressing sadness that we've reached "the last Jason Aaron Thor #1". Oy.)
So we're probably looking at over a 100 Jason Aaron Thors when all is said and done. It's just not as obvious as it used to be.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 10
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That's not really true; there are longer runs out there. Of course, what HAS changed is that you don't seem to get the simplicity of a run going from #232-293, #227-286, etc., especially at Marvel. Now it's (to use Jason Aaron's Thor as an example):
#1-25, #1-8, #1-4, #1-23, #700-706, #1-10+ (plus a special, two five issue mini-series and a six issue mini-series). (Really weird to see a letter in a recent issue of Thor expressing sadness that we've reached "the last Jason Aaron Thor #1". Oy.)
So we're probably looking at over a 100 Jason Aaron Thors when all is said and done. It's just not as obvious as it used to be.
=======================================================
I think as well by not breaking a series in to a new number one every 12 / 24 months helps a writer build more longevity to their narrative. I've lost track of how many Captain America series we've had since 2002.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 11
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I've run hot and cold with Marvel for years now but I like some of what they're putting out at the moment. The Marvel I fell in love with, it could be argued, was gone by 1990. Some would say 1986, some may say when Jack Kirby left. Some readers in this group think that the X-Men went downhill when JB left, some when Jim Lee took over. At my LCS, those 90's X-Men issues are the "Good Ol' Days" to some of the younger customers.
Currently, I like the books that I'm reading but they're never going to be JB's Fantastic Four, Claremont's X-Men, Simonson's Thor, etc..., A problem with today's books are the influences of the movies but it's hard to argue against trying to appeal to movie fans by introducing elements that they're familiar with. I prefer the Tony Stark of my youth, not Robert Downey Jr. but that's the characterization in the books now. You can ignore crossovers and still find a book that you may like.
I'm still hoping that I'll be reading X-Men Elsewhen sooner than later.
Edited by Shawn Kane on 22 February 2019 at 10:38am
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
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| Posted: 22 February 2019 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 12
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Marvel has always been a funny one. I would never say it had a point where they put me off everything, it was more periods for the books they were putting out.
Losing Roger Stern off The Avengers put that title in to a creative tailspin that it never fully pulled out of until Busiek /Perez. There were some high spots, but Stern was sorely missed.
Iron Man being another. After Michelinie / Layton's return, JB/ JR, Jr. / Ryan's run, and the under appreciated Len Kaminski run Marvel just gutted that title until Heroes Return.
The FF being another one. Much as I liked Tom DeFalco on Thor and Spider-Man, he seemed unstuck with the FF. The Paul Ryan art was what kept me going
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