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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 5:29am | IP Logged | 1  

The technical explanation about deadlines (and inkers) being of course the historical truth, the interpretations by writers and readers coming second.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 2  

Comics have a long tradition of presenting us with colors not found in nature. Trying to explain them is too much like forcing "reality" into these fantasies.

(When I started 3D modeling, one of the first things I discovered was a setting called "Specular" in the color controls. This actually allowed the creation of comic-like coloring, as I could make a surface shiny black and give it a blue specular setting, and, lo and behold, the highlights were blue. Or green. Or yellow. Whatever I wanted!)

BTW, what color is my dog?

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 3  

Bruce Wayne's hair and Batman's costume: the same color on the comicbook page but not "really" the same color -- that's as clear as possible. Did any kid reading these comics over many decades truly have any problem with the use of black/blue? If you grow up and do grow troubled by it, then drop the hobby and leave comicbooks to the kids.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 4  

The dog:
I see it as black.
I even see the grey highlights as back.
Because i know it's black, and don't understand the highlight as a different colors until i think about it, and maybe even more until i think, "if i had to paint it, what colors would i use."
Here, probably one "color", black, for the darker parts, and two different ones for the highlights.
one would be a lighter black, that would go in dirrection of the white, which would be a dark grey. So according to modern conventions, we're not talking of colors, but of light.
And one that rather would go in dirrection of violet, but a very dark, almost black violet.
And i would have them to be close enough to each other to work together, while being reconizable (perceived, but not necessary conciently, actually preferably not conciently) as slightly different.


Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 11 July 2019 at 5:52am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 5  

Did any kid reading these comics over many decades truly have any problem with the use of black/blue? If you grow up and do grow troubled by it, then drop the hobby and leave comicbooks to the kids.

••

Granted, organized fandom did not exist when I was a kid, so I had no way of knowing what other readers were thinking. When I had my mother make a Batman costume for me for Halloween, I chose blue for the cape and cowl, etc. That was the color in the comics, and I had no access to the history that would show me it was really black. Even the reprints in the Annuals (which I did not know were reprints) had his costume blue and grey.

Spider-Man, tho, I "met" when he was wearing red and black. My introduction to the X-Men had them in yellow and black.

But I understood that Superman's hair was not blue, and it was not until I was an adult and entering the business that I started hearing people ask why "everyone couldn't tell" that Clark and Superman were the same, since "they both have blue hair." Lois had blue hair, too, but nobody seemed to be bothered by that.

I quickly realized it was something that had become an affectation in the aging fans. Those ennui-engorge losers who were addicted, so could not quit, but had to proclaim their superiority to their addiction by mocking it.

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Manuel Soler
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 6  

It seems indigo/violet (similar color to the dog's leash) but I suppose your dog is really black.
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John Popa
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 7  

I always saw Cyclops's costume as blue. My intro to Spider-Man was the 60's cartoon where his costume was blue so that's how I've always seen it.

I guess I should throw myself off a cliff.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 8  

I guess I should throw myself off a cliff.

••

Only a little one.

You've been caught by the changes that happened, rather haphazardly, to various characters over the years. When I returned to reading comics, in the early Seventies, I was surprised to find the non-red part of Spider-Man's costume had turned blue.* When I was assigned to draw the character, I made those parts black, and no one objected.

Many characters have been sucked into that same swamp that has affected movies like PLANET OF THE APES, STAR WARS or THE MATRIX. Later iterations so altered the story/characters that the originals no longer fit.

The most outrageous example was when I was getting ready to do Captain Marvel, at DC. A young artist asked me what I was working on, and when I told him he said "Oh, I'm a purist. I call him Shazam."

-----------------

* Actually, blue over the standard caucasian flesh tones, so more of a deep purple.

This can make for embarrassing moments for our friendly neighborhood webslinger. I recall one panel in which the blue was left out, and Spider-Man was widdout pants!!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 9  

Further:

I wanted Northstar and Aurora to have very shiny black hair, so I asked that no color be put on the hightlights. Fine--except other artists started drawing them with white hair, and, in one case I saw, the colorist made this yellow/blond!

Years later, at DC, when I was working on GENERATIONS 2 I happened by chance to be in the editor's office when the coloring came in for one of the covers. As some of you may recall, in G2 I had a Supergirl with black hair, and a Robin with blond. The colorist had "fixed" this, putting yellow highlights on Supergirl's hair, and making Robin's hair blue. Luckily there was still time to fix it, but the editor, whose job it was to catch such things, had not noticed.

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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 10  

Never had doubts about Norhstar and Aurora having black hair.
When afer your time they were sometime drawn with white hair, and yes in one occasion me too i remember the blond hair, i was really bored by that. It just felt wrong.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 11  

When I heard Randy Bowen was doing busts of Northstar and Aurora I called him to make sure their hair would be black. "Of course!" he said. "What else?"
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David Schmidt
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Posted: 11 July 2019 at 7:45am | IP Logged | 12  

When I started reading the original X-Men I assumed they were in blue costumes.

It was a reedition published in France at the same time as your run on X-Men. I understood the costumes were black by reading #138...
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