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Topic: How will the Brexit work? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Friends in Great Britain, now that you have Boris Johnson in charge - stars have mercy on you - and under 100 days to go before the Brexit, is there any way this can work without devastating both Britain's and Europe's economies?

More key, who can mediate this? I'm trying to think of a relatively neutral country who could step in to help sort this out and I'm blanking. At one time, I thought the United States would be perfect, but our State Department is so destroyed that I doubt anyone could handle such a job. So... Canada? Australia? Israel? I'm having trouble thinking of who has interests with both groups.

Or is there any poissibility that the Brexit can be undone and keep Europe in one relatively peaceful union? I don't have enough knowledge or perspective to get it... can you help explain, please?
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Darren Ashmore
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Eric, the main problem with the Brexit debacle (I can't think of another word to describe it), is that the actual vote was very close, almost as many people wanting to remain as leave.  To make matters worse the politicians in charge (both in government and opposition) were/are mostly Remainers, so the general feeling was that the people charged to make this happen were not really that invested in it.  Along comes Boris who campaigned as a leaver and was seen by the leave side as the great white knight.  Sadly all a little late now as previous PM Teresa May had negotiated a deal with the EU but could not get it ratified by our own Parliament whose MPs threw up all manner of objections. Many believe that this was done to thwart the leave process entirely and force another referendum. So now we have a situation where the EU believes it has done all the negotiation it is going to do and sees no reason to reopen the talks and a new PM who want a new deal entirely.  I think it was Lincoln who said 'You can't please all the people all the time' and this was never more true of Brexit where so many of the factions involved want different things and Democracy working the way it does, no one is going to get what they want exactly the way they want it.  I would imagine to counties outside the UK we look very foolish indeed just now.
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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Saw a meme that made me laugh that pointed out how the UK which colonized half of the world is now leaving the EU chiefly because of its immigration policies. 
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Darren A. - you don't look very foolish... SOME people do. But remember that we had our own Civil War in the United States. God forbid the results of the Brexit are close to that.

Right now, it would seem that cancelling it would be the option to go with... but can this be done at this late date?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Why has everyone forgotten that it was a referendum on whether to vote to leave, not a vote to leave.

TAKE THE BLOODY VOTE!

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Darren Ashmore
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

David Cameron, the Prime Minister before Teresa May, was the one who proposed the referendum as part of the 2015 General Election manifesto. He had to do this because the groundswell of opinion at the time was that the deal the UK got from the EU was quite poor and that we were being taken for a ride.  When Cameron won that election he HAD to follow through, totally misreading the zeitgeist and determination of the Leave side, and he genuinely believed the vote would go his way.  I think the result took a lot of people by surprise actually.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The question was ‘Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?’

That was a singularly flawed question, because no one really realised what the ramifications were.
It should have been a two part referendum - the first asking whether the terms should be investigated, & the second asking whether we should leave under those terms.

So much did not come up during the actual debates, & so much of what did come up was just made up. People had been fed lies for decades about interference from Brussels that they believed anything, including lies about the economics.
And no one mentioned that there would need to be a border between Ireland & Northern Ireland - something guaranteed to get the bombs going again.
Every time someone says the technology exists for a frictionless border, I really wish that statement would be followed up with the question ‘& what are these technologies?’ Because they don’t actually exist.

52% voted to leave. They didn’t think about whether they could agree on the how of that. & no one can agree that how. 
So it will be a crash out with no deal come 31st October.

I’ve spent the last three years depressed & angry about this. I don’t see that changing come October.
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Darren Ashmore
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Eric, just to follow up your comments. A version of Civil War is likely what we'd get here if anyone tried to cancel leaving at this point.  There would certainly be a period of unrest.  The argument has been that the majority (however slim) has spoken and to not follow the will of the people is anti-democratic.  Its like holding an election, one side not liking the result so demanding another election, getting the result they want, then the other side demanding the same - where does that end?

Saying that you guys have The Golden Child, so I can see where that might make sense :)
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

& as for having Boris Johnson as PM, all I can say is please watch this

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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

James,

I was thinking the same thing - a vote is one thing, a vote to do something with absolutely know idea HOW it will be done is just plain irresponsible. 

Every so often, we in the United States are reminded why the Founding Father's rejected direct democracy in favor of a Republic.

Marc
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

As I recall, 51% voted to leave. If I was in the 49% I would NOT be happy.

Seems like a much greater majority should be demanded.

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Darren Ashmore
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Posted: 05 August 2019 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

James, truth to tell, I don't think anyone expected the Leave side to win and the confidence in that was so great that zero contingency plans were made. The wishes of the other countries in the Union (Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) were disregarded and the Irish border was never considered in the mix.  The leavers main selling point was how much money we would save by not being in the EU (very disingenuous), the remain side and their Project Fear argued doom and gloom from day one. Neither came to pass but the chief result has been to polarise certain factions of the UK population into one camp or the other.  No-one seems to have thought about the real pertinent issues BEFORE having the referendum.

Edited by Darren Ashmore on 05 August 2019 at 12:55pm
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