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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 1
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Same with Superman. Even after DC officially formalized his emblem, there were still artistic variations, most notably what I call the Fat S and the Skinny S. (Point of reference: Curt Swan mostly drew the skinny S, Neal Adams the fat S.)
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Carlos Velasco
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 August 2019
Location: Spain
Posts: 280
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 2
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Several Batman related items:
- It looks like the Joker movie is great. I am glad.
- Am I the only one who has never liked Harley Quinn as a character?
- Five years ago, someone asked "If Batman were to operate in real life, how fast would it take for his identity to be revealed?". One of the answers from another anonymous user is an interesting read:
QUOTE:
Exactly one month after being coming to the attention of the Federal authorities.
A crazed vigilante is riding around an American city using military grade weaponry and committing crimes against civilians on a record scale? It would not take long at all to deploy the necessary resources to the scene.
Several Blackhawks and Little Birds from the BATF and FBI be orbiting on shifts doing surveillance, waiting for a signal that the unsub has begun activity.
He would leave to patrol in the Batmobile, and as soon as his distinctive black vehicle's turbine-driven heat signature was located, a Predator drone would be retasked to orbit and follow. That tango in question is very versatile, active, and potentially lethal when engaged so nothing would be done that night, however every illegal activity he performed would be caught on IR-enhnaced video, incliuding the multitude of assaults, breakings and enterings, trespasses, abuse of public property, use of prohibited weapons, substances and hazardous materials, perhaps even failure to register a motor vehicle and violating speed restrictions, and several counts of obstruction of justice.
His citizen's arrests would be logged and the suspects duly charged in any and all assaults against him, as well, however a few suspects will likely be audited for their willingness to testify both against their compatriots and the vigilante.
At some point his most recent crime spree will end and he will head for home. The Predator will follow, a barely visible line in the inky black Gotham sky, camera eye recording the Batmobile's every move.
Of course the Batmobile will disappear into some rocky outcropping or waterfall or some other land feature and it's destination will be unknown.
The very next day special operations elements of the DoJ will be at the location, planting temblor sensors and concealed cameras. This is Batman so it will be a few days before he uses the same entrance again, but he will, and when he does, the triggering of the sensors will activate the cameras, and FBI analysts will see the long stretch of tunnel inside the entrance and start doing calculations.
The length of the entrance tunnel until loss of focus or a turn will be calculated, and the direction and distance of that stretch of the tunnel will be known. Immediate records will be pulled for every building in the area, and every microsecond of the next day will be spent sifting through the possible combinations of owners, buildings, knowledge wealth and access to technology.
This will continue with each of the Batman's movements, and piece by piece a picture of his activities will become known. Information, bits and pieces will be gleaned from his victims, the various residues from his smoke bombs, gases and shark repellents will be analyzed, the Batarangs and grappling hooks researched down to the atomic scale.
Once there is a database of products and substances, the FBI will start rifling through purchase orders and BATF registrations for shipments of the necessary fuel for his Batmobile, and the explosive charges for his bat-grapples, and the avionics for his missile's warheads, amongst the other detritus he leaves after his battles.
Eventually the source of gear will be deciphered: Wayne Industries, and at that point, the cat is out of the bag. Wayne's home is within the perimeters of the Batmobile disappearances, and a thermal flyby will reveal he's using the same electricity as an small industrial plant does when only two or three people ever live in that mansion. Analysis of company records will reveal the massive levels of graft and embezzlement required to hijack all these prohibited and classified materials to the mansion, and the deliveries of the materials will tagged and traced.
The is enough evidence to present Bruce Wayne with a warrant for his arrest based on the very least on corporate malfeasance, embezzlement, falsification of tax records, Illegal trafficking of prohibited agents, weapons and substances falsified BATF filings, and aiding and abetting multiple criminal acts.
Since he is an important personage in the city, they'll do him the favor of sending one very polite agent armed with a single piece of paper, to wait in his office. What happens after that is up to him.
Conversely a team of agents and a ground-scanning radar van will arrive on the grounds of Wayne Manor and present Alfred with a warrant for his arrest and a search of the premises.
This will occur at the exact same time as Tim Drake, Jason Todd, and Dick Grayson are brought into custody, and James Gordon upon getting notification of a pending warrant against his daughter, will take the day off to go try and convince Barbara to turn State's witness.
All identified suspects that were encountered during the surveillance will be swept up as well on that day.
Wayne's excellent lawyer will have him booked and released on bail, at which point mysteriously enough a limo from the Themiscyran embassy will pick him up and he will not be seen again until he submits his US passport and a letter revoking his citizenship, and announces himself a citizen of the city-state of Atlantis.
When asked, they will plainly refuse extradition. |
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Of course, we shouldn't think about heroes this way... they are not supposed to be realistic.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 3
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Good grief, do I hate that armored look for Batman! I just rewatched part of "Justice League" (don't judge me) and I hated ALL of the armored costumes, save for Wonder Woman and Cyborg - kinda natural, and a LITTLE variety is nice. But the Flash in a suit of armor...? How far can you miss the point? ESPECIALLY when we never see it put to any positive use (e.g., stopping bullets.)
The line from Batman (1989) - "It's some kind of body armor. He's human after all" - pretty much sums up how bad the idea of armor is, to me.
Jay Garrick's logo has been twisted around some. To the right, to the left, tiny, medium, or so long that it extends below his belt line. Likely, there wasn't a model sheet for him after All-Star #57, since his use was so limited.
And to me, if Curt Swan drerw the skinny S, then that's the right one. Mr. Byrne's S looks rather that way to me as well. Besides... who wants a fat S? ;)
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 4
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Of course, we shouldn't think about heroes this way... they are not supposed to be realistic.
***
I've long assumed a few things:
1) The President and everyone in the executive branch know perfectly well that Bruce Wayne is Batman, Dick Grayson is Nightwing, etc.
2) Years ago they made a conscious decision to let Bruce and co. be costumed crimefighters and not interfere with them.
3) Why? It's Gotham. Gotham is really screwed up and always has been. And sending the National Guard, and keeping it there, would be seen as "a waste of taxpayer dollars."
4) Going after a known member of the Justice League wouldn't look good in the eyes of the U.S. electorate.
Hasn't it already been firmly established that Amanda Waller knows that Bruce is Batman?
Edited by Adam Schulman on 06 October 2019 at 9:57am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 5
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1) The President and everyone in the executive branch know perfectly well that Bruce Wayne is Batman, Dick Grayson is Nightwing, etc.2) Years ago they made a conscious decision to let Bruce and co. be costumed crimefighters and not interfere with them. 3) Why? It's Gotham. Gotham is really screwed up and always has been. And sending the National Guard, and keeping it there, would be seen as "a waste of taxpayer dollars." 4) Going after a known member of the Justice League wouldn't look good in the eyes of the U.S. electorate. ••• Ugh.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 6
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- It looks like the Joker movie is great. I am glad.••• Critics are raving about JOKER. What a pity the Joker isn’t in it.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 7
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I've long thought that tacit or often outright approval from the Police Commissioner was all of the leeway Batman required to conduct his operation. Overthinking that and involving Congress, the President, or other Federal authorities might provide grist for the storytelling mill, but it hampers the concept by over-complicating the premise and putting the focus on the wrong end of the spectrum of criminality in the feature.
If too much is made of the Batman being a criminal himself beyond the occasional storyline ("Bat-Murderer!") or local level, then the entire premise is about the need to A.) make everything he does legal by formally deputizing him, which makes for awkward moments or B.) equating what he does with what his enemies do, making him every bit as bad as they are, which is not the point.
I'm happy with Batman meeting local-level opposition from would-be Mayoral candidates or citizens groups. Fine. Bring it on. But Amanda Waller and her crew, federal agencies and whatnot, closing in on him is every bit as lame a premise as Batman whipping out a badge and showing up at ribbon-cutting ceremonies. Let him operate on the edge and keep the focus on what he is doing in a given story rather than the navel-gazing internalization of whether or not he should be allowed to do it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 8
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The line from Batman (1989) - "It's some kind of body armor. He's human after all" - pretty much sums up how bad the idea of armor is, to me.••• Batman’s psychology is easy to sum up: he’s a guy in a leotard, AND HE CANNOT BE KILLED.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12444
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 9
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QUOTE:
| ...he’s a guy in a leotard, AND HE CANNOT BE KILLED. |
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Batman wants to "strike terror" into the hearts of criminals, as he says in his origin. What's more terrifying that that?!
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 10
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Ugh.
***
OK, I'll bite. Why "ugh"? "You're too old to be reading superhero comics."
No, I'm not. Only if I expected all this to be spelled out explicitly would I be. I don't.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 06 October 2019 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 11
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If anyone is going to keep his identity secret, it's Batman. And he doesn't need permission. Batman is an individual taking matters into his own hands to ensure justice is done.
Any move away from this not only undermines the core of the character, but detracts from the fun. And, yes, a product of overthink.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07 October 2019 at 3:35am | IP Logged | 12
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If the thinking is that technology has advanced so far that the government has facial (or gait) recognition software attached to cameras all over Gotham or A.I. software that could piece together all clues to Batman's secret identity, I would point out that tycoon Bruce Wayne has access to equal technology that could mask Batman's jawline or gait and computer programs that could reasonably misdirect identity clues. Just like with the Cold War or military weaponry through the ages, both sides usually advance equally, out of necessity.
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