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David Allen Perrin
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Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3549
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 3:14am | IP Logged | 1
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“I like Presidents who weren’t impeached.”
- John McCain
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 2
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DAP - we should have that McCain "quote" carved somewhere important. Laughed my ass off.
That may be the only funny thing about this. It is another moment in American history that will live in infamy, with no possible good outcome that I can see.
I don't celebrate this impeachment; I grieve it. It isn't a good thing, but it's better t try to get shut of this whole thing, if possible, and try to - dare I say - make America great again.
But this is a blot on the USA that will never be ignored. Trump, like Nixon, has changed America forever - and not for the better.
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David Allen Perrin
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 3
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I’d like to see it carved in Trump’s billboard width backside.
I’ve never despised a person so much in my life. I have Sith Lord levels of hate for him.
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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 4
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And with this impeachment, he's really and truly screwed now. He can no longer be pardoned.
ARTICLE II, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 1 of the Constitution:
"The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
That is why Nixon resigned when he did, so Ford could pardon him. Trump's ego would not allow him to "give up".
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 5
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He doesn't have to worry about being pardoned. The Senate is going to acquit him.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 6
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Kevin Brown wrote:
| And with this impeachment, he's really and truly screwed now. He can no longer be pardoned. |
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That phrase in the Constitution is vague enough to be open to interpretation. What precisely it means would ultimately be decided by a Trump-friendly Supreme Court, so I'm skeptical that it provides a golden ticket to hold Trump accountable after he leaves office.
At this point Pelosi ought to just hold onto the articles of impeachment and never send them to the Senate. No useful purpose would be served by allowing McConnell to stage a show trial with the pre-ordained goal of acquittal as he's publicly stated he plans to do.
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Michael Penn
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| That phrase in the Constitution is vague enough to be open to interpretation. |
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Vague?
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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As discussed in this vintage article, the most narrow interpretation of this clause is that it simply means the President "cannot restore the standing of a Federal officer who has been impeached and removed from his position." In other words he can't reverse an impeachment conviction with a pardon. Does that mean that if a President is impeached but acquitted by the Senate, a later President could not pardon him for any crimes underlying the impeachment? That is debatable... the wording is not clear enough to be certain. Which means it would need to be interpreted by the courts, which ultimately means the Trump-friendly SCOTUS would decide. |
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Marc Baptiste
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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Under relatively normal circumstances, I would have concerns about Speaker Pelosi withholding the Articles of Impeachment from the Senate... HOWEVER, in this case, with Mitch McConnell in charge and more than a few Senate Republicans saying they have already made up their mind, I think it's a masterstroke on the Speaker's part.
Let Trump languish in the political wind with no bragging rights to his "acquittal". This also serves another, perhaps more important result: letting Mitch McConnell know that despite being in charge of the Senate - that someone who isn't intimidated by him is in charge of the separate, co-equal House of Representatives!
Marc
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 10
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If The Democrats win the senate next year, can they start the process, even if Trump is still in office or out of it?
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Mark Waldman
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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Kudos to Pelosi and the rule of law. Screw the orange dictator. Let his ego take the beating it deserves. His acts get lower and lower each day. I was listening to Marilu Henner on Marc Maron's podcast today and she was talking about her time on The Apprentice and how she saw characteristics like his "quick wit", "charm", etc. but never could imagine the worst of what's come out. She says he likes to go with the crowd, and in this case the crowd are people he doesn't respect and knows he can use. You want religion, sure, have it. You want guns, sure, have them. You want racism, sure, I'm an elitist, have at it. His comments at his rally last night (why is a sitting president holding rallies every week? That alone is sick) were predictably low and the work of a coward who is used to getting his way and acting out. I wish we could fast forward until all of this is done, it's an unpleasant and frightening time for our nation, our credibility shot around the world. All we can do is watch, try not to be affected and learn from it. History should teach us, though it obviously hasn't taught Trump or the Republican party.
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Kevin Brown
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| Posted: 19 December 2019 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | 12
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He doesn't have to worry about being pardoned. The Senate is going to acquit him.
*****************************
Even if they vote to not remove him from office, that doesn't mean he's off scott free. This isn't a trial in the normal sense of things. It just means he won't be removed, it's not a "not guilty" verdict. He can still be charged with obstruction, etc., when he leaves office. Odds are that he will be and he will be tried in a real court of law then. Had he resigned prior to impeachment, he'd be safe; he didn't and he's not.
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