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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4566
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Posted: 08 June 2020 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 1
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But I wouldn't go so far as to say a flat earther will never have something worth hearing on any topic. That's what the ignore feature seems like people are saying to me. I don't even have on ignore people who have made it known I am on theirs... I grew up. I feel a bit of an idiot frankly being in a community where a lot of people do that (whereas I would expect John Byrne to rightly use such a feature), or those places where there are reporter elves waging wars, but then I have never understood some extended family members' disputes where they aren't talking to so-and-so, and they can go on for decades.
Nobody is on my ignore list, but it goes without saying I don't have to read every single thing posted, nor agree, demand they agree, or have to respond if I don't agree. Hey, maybe I will even come across someone who supports Trump with reasons that make any sense to me. Just because it hasn't happened so far doesn't mean you have to close the door entirely to such a possibility. It definitely can't happen if the door is totally shut. Look at all my stimulation some deprive themselves of just because I said something once or twice they didn't like. Richard Pryor said the N word so many times at one time it could make me ill, but he still had things to say worth listening to.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 08 June 2020 at 11:30pm
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Neil Lindholm Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: China Posts: 4941
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Posted: 08 June 2020 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | 2
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I was going to comment on the ignore feature but Rebecca summed up my feelings on it perfectly.
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James Johnson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 2068
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 6:39am | IP Logged | 3
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....I ignore someone before I call it a night and things have went semi-south.....
So I'll UN-ignore at this moment.
To start, I may not be the most loquacious person on this board (mainly come for the comics talk. stay for our host's art), but for you (and anyone else) to get upset because I choose to use this function is downright crazy.
Back to what drove me to my decision.
I am not celebrating George Floyd's life or whatever criminal acts he may or may not have done. I am stating the fact that this man did not deserve to to be murdered for the alleged act of passing on a counterfeit $20 bill. For the officer to put his knee on this man's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds while handcuffed is wrong.
8 minutes and 46 seconds wrong.
People in the African American community have been complaining about their treatment by law enforcement officers for generation and the only response from a good portion white Amercans in power is that :
They are lying
They are agitators (a word from the anti civil rights club)
They are provoking the police
Even with the proliferation of personal video devices filming such devices, we still do not get justice.
Yet you, Andy, constantly use whataboutisms to distract from the issue at hand of why are black Americans (or other's for that matter) getting upset and protesting the killing of an unarmed black man by the police.
You're full of it.
Before I go, something else
To state that the president is not putting Hispanic children in cages is the most tone deaf thing anyone can say. But you love the way he is handling the immigration issue.
I am going to assume that you are either drinking disinfectant (Clorox? Lysol?) or shoving an UV light somewhere inside of yourself.
Now, I am going to enjoy the latest page of XMEN: Elsewhen.
I need something to give me a smile on my face.
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Christopher Frost Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2016 Location: Canada Posts: 484
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 4
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with using the ignore feature. It's there so that you don't have to put up with the behavior of someone that is annoying or offending you with their posts. Our host uses it, a number of our members use it and you don't need to defend why you choose to do the same. If people don't like the fact that they are being ignored, perhaps they should look at their posting and ask themselves why someone would want to ignore what they have to say.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30913
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 5
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I have 6-8 people on my ignore list. I’m not going to apologize for it. These people have proven they have nothing worthwhile that I need to listen to. If other people want to, fine. That doesn’t mean I have to. Life is already full of bullshit I have to put up with. If I’m given a function that takes a little of that bullshit away, I’m all for it.
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 6
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I never suggested that one isn't allowed to or can't use the ignore function. If you can't handle an opinion differing from your own, do what you must.
But I think it's cowardly and a symptom of the culture we're stuck in right now. If you're only defense is to willfully cut off discourse then I really don't see how you'd expect anyone else to ever see things your way. Are you only comfortable in a proverbial echo chamber? Does someone have to immediately conform to your way of thinking? I'm really curious how plugging your ears is supposed to accomplish anything? If nothing else, you could practice common courtesy and expressing your POV. I don't agree with you but I'm able to express why and not be so distraught that I have to block your posts from my sight. I don't think I'm special in any way to be able to do that.
As far as George Floyd's situation, no one has defended the actions of the policeman. No one is arguing that he did the right thing. EVERYONE agrees that what he did was wrong. There was no dissent on that issue. No one said Floyd should have died. Well, no one that I've seen.
But there are those that are making "him" out to be a hero of some kind. There are literally shrines dedicated to him. Murals, artwork, etc. all dedicated to specifically him. He was a thug. He was a part of the problem. It's sickening that his memory is so directly linked to such a cause.
Edited by Andy Mokler on 09 June 2020 at 10:26am
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2179
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 7
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Andy>>He was a thug. He was a part of the problem. It's sickening that his memory is so directly linked to such a cause.<<
Small time criminals aren't inherently bad people who decide their life's calling is selling onesy cigarettes or passing funny money. The inequities in the system causes these people to happen. It's like how most pirates were just out of work sailors. Tautological I know, but the more desperate you are, the more likely you are to do something desperate.
I once knew a guy who happened to be a drug dealer (still is, as far as I'm aware). Got the no-knock raid and everything. He'd made a lot of poor choices in his life. People would say, "why doesn't he try to go straight?" He did try. Dealing is dangerous. Yet no one would hire him because of his record. Even maintenance work. Would you hire him? So society made it almost impossible for him to stop doing the only thing he knew how to do to make enough money to live.
The corrections system seems more intent on being an industrial complex than being a corrections system. You can punish someone all you want, but if they have no way to learn new behaviors, a cycle of recidivism is inevitable.
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Andy Mokler Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2799
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 8
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Is classifying Floyd as a small time criminal accurate? I think he went big time when he stuck a gun in a pregnant woman's belly.
I understand what you're saying in general and it's probably got some merit but I am tired of blaming society for people who break the law. I am much more in favor of personal accountability. Take responsibility for your choices and actions.
Floyd was in prison on 5 different occasions and was breaking the law yet again when the police were called about him. He had 5 chances to straighten out. When is enough, enough?
Many people would rather live outside the system and take advantage of others. I have no pity or sympathy for them.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4566
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 9
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Extreme 'sides' communicating at all seems about the only way to progress from extremes picking out supposed atrocities to provoke outrage with plugged ears writing off giant swathes of people. Extremes of evil versus extremes of pure virtuousness, or just people going to the extreme over what seems like nearly everything? Where did the non-reactionary adults all go? Why are there so many half-shrieking commentators on so many tv and radio channels? Why aren't people quietly ignoring them?
If I ignored people who seem to have nothing of their own thinking to offer and are just re-transmitters of some 'commentator' or reacting to some half-truth 'news' item in the starkest good vs. evil basis I'd have a long ignore list. So many don't even try and get even more bent out of shape when someone is causing them to have to perhaps, plus they are just never wrong. When you buy into one 'side' you never have to worry about that and you get to beat anyone outside of that righteously year after decade. How is it working for you? It's not, the U.S. is in a vicious cycle going downward. The other kid having started it isn't helpful. So ignoring and ignore lists are definitely an essential pillar of the situation today. The more of that the less hope really.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7647
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well now. There are currently three threads where people are just going at it hammer and tongs - all pretty much on different aspects of the same thing. And (probably nailing my colours to the mast here), I think they can all be summed up as 'This is the product of the last four years of Trump being in the political spectrum'.
A daily stream of lies, of treating people as less than human, creating an 'us and them' culture, where 'the other' is to be feared, demonised and 'dealt with' has led to a toxic environment that was a powder keg, waiting for a spark to ignite it.
The death of George Floyd has ignited the spark in America and across the world. There are points worth debating, but that debate is not going to happen when emotions are so strong, when rhetoric is thrown around so liberally, and when people with real grievances are being labelled as terrorists.
If, and I stress if, we think it is OK to kneel on someone's neck for nearly nine minutes until they die, if we think it is OK to push someone over so they have blood pouring from their ear and ignore them,then there is a serious problem in society. The polarisation has reached such levels that we have become unable to debate, discuss without it descending into attack and counter attack.
Points are raised on the one side, points are dismissed and other points are raised by the other side, to be dismissed again. Neither side moves, neither side is capable of seeing the points from the other side as anything other than madness or lies.
George Floyd was clearly not a saint. He did some bad things and deserved to have been sent to jail for some of those things. He might even been shot at one point had the situation been different - holding a gun to a pregnant woman is something that might require the offender to be shot depending on how the incident progresses.
But we don't live in a society that says 'because you are doing x, I'm going to deal with what you did with y' that's not how the legal system works - it's how films work - they work on the principle that if you are wronged, the film will end with you killing the person who wronged you.
George Floyd used a false note, that's illegal, he should have been in court for it. He should not have died for THAT. That he died for THAT is the issue here.
That there are Police who think it is funny to joke with a white woman in a car, scared that the Police will shoot her, and say 'Nah, we only shoot the black people, you know that right?', that there is an instance of a black woman being shot in her own home because her neighbour thought someone had broken in to the home - these are all terrible, terrible things - and something needs to be done.
That nothing was being done, other than demonising the victims is the reason we are where we are.
And the response seems to be to demonise those who are saying enough is enough. To throw statistics around showing that 'It really is worse for whites than it is for blacks'. It's not, it really isn't. Because you have to look at the story behind those statistics - who got killed, what were they doing, what's the chain of events?
What is going on is terrifying. That there are whole other topics that can lead to just as emotional 'debates' is just as terrifying. On some of these topics I'm sure I would be viewed as left wing, on some, I'm sure I would be viewed as right wing (talk to me sometime about my worries regarding pre-transgender men having access to female facilities), but unless we learn to talk, not shout, we aren't going to get anywhere. Unless we learn to stop lying and ignoring what is going on in favour of 'alternative facts', stop demonising 'the other', we will never be able to make amends, unless we look at where we are now, we will never progress.
Final thought - a statue of a slave trader was pulled down and thrown in a river in Bristol. Some said good, some said it was ignoring history and removing something that could be used to instigate telling the story of the slaves. We really do need to think about what these represent to both sides, and weigh the positive thoughts one side may have (and what those positive thoughts are about), against the damaging thoughts/message their existence promotes in others. My personal thoughts on the statue was that it was celebrating a man whose achievement was slavery. Did he add much beyond that? I'm not so sure he did. On the other hand, I do not condone defacing a statue of Churchill, because there, we have a lot more to think about in what he achieved and what his statue actually represents.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14819
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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some said it was ignoring history
------
This argument frustrates me. A statue of a person in a public space is not really teaching history, it's honoring that person. If history is important, place that statue in a museum where it can be given context.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4566
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Posted: 09 June 2020 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 12
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If it's a choice between any people telling me they feel mistreated and a thing, a statue, whatever... go with the people.
There was a statue here in front of our city hall of one John A. MacDonald, a founding father of Canada. He was on record way back saying ignorant racist things about natives. Natives said they had a lot of problems with the statue of him being in front of our shared city hall entrance. I said without hesitation get rid of it. The mayor who did this was on some kind of deluxe bike lanes painted green everywhere whether the street was super narrow or on a steep hill, all with their own traffic light system, removing parking spots... so I have issues with her, and more besides that one, but totally back the action. Some usual bunch of counter protestors appeared whinging on about the statue and history erased, blah blah blah. They got their little attention moment, but the statue has stayed gone and not one more Native person has to go post to enter city hall. I don't know who put it there in the first place, or what they were thinking if they were thinking, perhaps whoever put the statue in Bristol up of one of their founding whatevers wasn't much different. I do know however that a shit ton of these confederate heroes statues were much more recently erected than most folks realize and they were deliberately meant to insult and impose upon the citizenry of color, many were put up during the height of the struggle for civil rights. A black man said that seeing a confederate flag as part of his state flag that it was not much different from a Jewish person having to walk by a nazi swastika on theirs. Flag vs. people = go with the people. I can't understand who wouldn't.
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