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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7655
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| Posted: 24 June 2020 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 1
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No Joe, just no.Rappers who glamerise crime are
arseholes and should be put in prison.
But that has zero, absolutely zero to do with Black
Lives matter which is about institutionalised and
historical racism. As has been explained numerous times
now - BLM is about people who are NOT black, setting up
systems that cause non-whites to have obstacles put in
their way - whether those are jobs, education or actual
health and wellbeing.
Are you missing that point on purpose?
Aunt Jemima would not be a black owned business. you
know why? Because black owned businesses don't celebrate
slavery and use images associated with slavery on their
logo. Please feel free to direct me to one that does.The
underlying anger is against racism. It is very well
directed in that direction.Your anger is against people
asking for equality and wanting to say that now, at
last, the time has come to get rid of racist symbols
that celebrate that time, that perpetuate negative
stereotypes, that hanker back to a time when white
people OWNED black people. You seem fine with racism,
good for you.
You are totally wrong about everything you are saying,
and ignoring when people show you, some politely, some
less so, just how wrong you are, but hey, you feel OK to
just go right ahead and keep spouting racist crap,
backed up by, well I'm not sure other than complete,
total and utter crap, but you keep spouting it.
Edited by James Woodcock on 24 June 2020 at 5:54am
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35751
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| Posted: 24 June 2020 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 2
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Joe Zhang wrote:
| The underlying anger is against corporate America. Anger which is misdirected, because in my experience corporations have bent over backwards and then some trying to promote diversity in their ranks. |
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You can't possibly have written this with a straight face. Either that or you've bought into the myth that corporate America has become a haven for diversity and it's "leading the charge for change". That is 100% unequivocally false.
QUOTE:
| Black professionals in 2018 held just 3.3% of all of executive or senior leadership roles, which are defined as within two reporting levels of the CEO, according to the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. |
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QUOTE:
| Only four Fortune 500 companies have a black chief executive, down from seven less than 10 years ago... |
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Here's a graph for those less inclined to spend a few minutes reading up on the subject, taken from this article:
These numbers (and many more dismal reports covering this topic from a wide array of angles) virtually shout that corporate America is far from "bending over backward" to achieve diversity among their ranks. Oh, they'll come out in support of it when the focus is on them by issuing hollow Tweets and sending out emails to their subscriber lists like those we've seen from thousands of companies in just the last month, or by finally changing a blatantly racist brand or eliminating it altogether when the gale force winds of national protests forces them to do so, or issue yet another declaration of their intent to focus on hiring people of color, women and LGBTQ, but when the rubber meets the road it's abundantly clear that corporate America is decidedly not a bastion of diversity. If anything, corporate America reacts so incredibly slowly to change and diversification to the point that a turtle looks fast in comparison.
It's idiotic to the point of absurdity and self delusion to believe anything else.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: 24 June 2020 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | 3
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IMO, they should keep the image of the most recent model for the brand and just change the name of the brand. The new name could be either named after the original model (call it "Aunt Nancy's Pancake Mix" and "Aunt Nancy's Syrup") or they could just call the pancake mix and syrup "Auntie's Pancake Mix" and "Auntie's Syrup".
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14821
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| Posted: 24 June 2020 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 4
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IMO, they should keep the image of the most recent model for the brand and just change the name of the brand. The new name could be either named after the original model (call it "Aunt Nancy's Pancake Mix" and "Aunt Nancy's Syrup") or they could just call the pancake mix and syrup "Auntie's Pancake Mix" and "Auntie's Syrup".
———
That would just be problematic in a different way.
The brand is changing regardless, so I don’t see the need to cling to the image of a black woman or “Auntie” in the name.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 24 June 2020 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 5
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That would just be problematic in a different way.
The brand is changing regardless, so I don’t see the need to cling to the image of a black woman or “Auntie” in the name.
________________________
How would that be problematic? Why shouldn't they have an image of a Black woman presented in a positive non racist manner be the representation of the brand? Instead of calling her "Auntie" they could just call her "Chef" and call the two brands "Chef Nancy's Pancake Mix" and "Chef Nancy's Syrup".
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 25 June 2020 at 3:35am | IP Logged | 6
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It would be problematic because of the history. It would be problematic because it is an image of a black woman. It is problematic because of the baggage associated with the lack of change up until now. It won’t be perceived as a positive representation at all. Trying to surgically remove the racism on a brand that has dragged its feet until now just looks like more apprehension. Anything less than completely changing the name of the product and changing the image to a white man or woman seems problematic. Even that might be problematic, but I suspect the only people taking issue would be white.
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 25 June 2020 at 5:29am | IP Logged | 7
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<<Anything less than completely changing the name of
the product and changing the image to a white man or
woman seems problematic>>
I can only imagine the twitter frenzy if they swapped
out the black woman for a white woman and called it
'Aunt Sally's Pancake Mix'. Good luck with that one,
Quaker Oats.
I had never heard of Aunt Jemima until this thread, it
seems to be a uniquely American product. I get the
controversy, but from a company marketing point of
view, it would be a much bigger risk to completely
rebrand a well known product than tweak it - no company
is going to willingly throw away 100s of milions of
dollars, after all.
I see no problem with calling it 'Nancy Green's Pancake
Mix' and use a photo of the real Nancy Green,
acknowledging the history of the product and providing
positive representation.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 25 June 2020 at 5:40am | IP Logged | 8
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There seems to be a growing confusion over the term "blackface". I was just reading an online article that very properly found fault with "traditional" minstrel show portrayals, but then went on to list Robert Downey Jr's character in TROPIC THUNDER as another example. Which rather misses the satirical point of the whole movie!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 25 June 2020 at 5:43am | IP Logged | 9
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That graph makes a common mistake. It considers only the NUMBERS, without considering the factors that create those numbers.Why are Black people so underrepresented? Because Black people have been almost completely FAILED by the educational system in this country. THAT'S where the problem really lies. Fix those inequities, and maybe we'll have a realistic chance of righting some other wrongs.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25 June 2020 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 10
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Access is the largest barrier to greater representation in high level business leadership positions.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 25 June 2020 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 11
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Access begins with education. As long as the people doing the hiring (predominantly White themselves) can say “s/he” doesn’t have the necessary qualifications” minorities—including women—are going to find themselves constantly cut off at the knees. I’ve been singing this song for a long, long time. It’s the “give a man a fish” principle.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25 June 2020 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 12
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I’ll point out that Asian Americans have the highest rates of education over other groups in the US, but are the least likely to be promoted into management.
Lack of qualifications is not what is preventing better representation in this case.
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