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Ian Evans Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004 Posts: 2433
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 1
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In another thread JB wrote:
Polonius' speech to Laertes is almost chapter and verse a list of Rules of Comportment that was written for his family by William Cecil, Lord Burghley, one of Queen Elizabeth's most devoted and loyal advisors. And, interestingly enough, the guardian of a troublesome young man named Edward De Vere, the 17th Earl of Oxford.
**********
I replied:
I'd be interested to know, JB, why you are so convinced (or believe the weight of evidence supports the idea anyway) that De Vere is the likeliest candidate for Shakespeare authorship. De Vere died in 1604, and Shakespeare's greatest works like Macbeth and Lear were performed circa 1606, including topical allusions that place them quite firmly after DeVere's death. Is there a reason why you dismiss this?
Edit: I mean of course there are reasons, I am just interested to know what they are
I wanted to post it here in case you missed it in the other thread - not trying to badger if you don't wish to answer
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132330
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 2
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One of the greatest stumbling blocks to any sort of resolution of the Authorship Question is that no one knows when the plays were written. We have only the dates when they were performed. As such, we cannot tell what might have been posthumous, and what might not. Even Stratfordians, meanwhile, acknowledge there was editorial "assistance" in the later plays.Now try this one: if Will Shaksper was the author, and did not shuffle off this mortal coil until 1616, why does the dedication of the first publication of the Sonnets, printed in 1609, refer to the author as if he is dead?
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9704
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 3
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So you think it was De Vere and not Bacon? I've heard Bacon cited as the
likely author of at least some of the tragedies, though I don't see much
similarity in the use of language -- other than both authors being
Elizabethan playwrights.
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Ian Evans Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004 Posts: 2433
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 4
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If I read you right, JB, you are saying that those topical allusions (e.g. In Macbeth,the porter's speech about equivocation, the references to The Tiger etc.) are later additions? Interesting.
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Aaron Poehler Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Posts: 298
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think this is what JB was referring to:
Edited by Aaron Poehler on 22 September 2005 at 12:03pm
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Eric Kleefeld Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4422
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 6
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I was introduced to this whole authorship stuff by JB's brief discussion of it
in the Next Men letter column. After much reading and pondering I'm
uncertain on De Vere, but also quite skeptical of the mainstream attribution.
To borrow from Mark Twain, I only think it was De Vere, but I virtually
know it was not the guy from Stratford-on-Avon.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30904
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 7
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I was introduced to this whole authorship stuff by JB's brief discussion of it in the Next Men letter column.
*************
Me, too.
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7488
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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There is considerable historic evidence to suggest that Edward DeVere, if not the sole author of the "Shakespeare" plays, was at least the principal author. Given the era and the low social standing of playwrights, it is entirely logical that DeVere may have wished to use Will Shaksper as a "front." I don't know if the proof will ever be conclusive beyond any doubt, but it is certainly persuasive.
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Ian Evans Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004 Posts: 2433
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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For myself, I knew that there was a question, but even in my undergraduate days never heard of the question referred to with anything other than tongue in cheek until JB brought it up on this board. I haven't looked into it since, and only thought about it today because of his remarks in the Thoughts to live by thread, but am certainly taking the idea more seriously now.
Edit:1616 posts! A coincidence? You decide...
Edited by Ian Evans on 22 September 2005 at 12:15pm
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30904
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 10
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Spooooky.
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Eric Kleefeld Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4422
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 11
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Mark Twain pointed out that Shakespeare's will contained no references to
books, manuscripts or other writings in the estate. If indeed true then it's a
strong argument against the mainstream authorship idea.
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James C. Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4705
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 12
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Let me lay some 21 Century on this. There are algorithms that purport to decide authorship of unsigned or disputed writings of length by comparing them to an equally lengthy sample of known origin. Has anyone tried comparing a long piece by Edward de Vere with a long Shakespeare piece?
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