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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 1
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I got into this era through Classic X-Men, and I always stared at these covers (relegated to the inside back cover so that Arthur Adams could draw the "real" cover). They were so DIFFERENT!
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Dave Pruitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6149
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 2
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Not to change the drift of this thread, but someone posted this in the Images thread, and I wonder if you know what this piece was for, JB?
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30901
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 3
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On one of my earliest trips into the “new” Marvel offices, after I started working for them full time (around 1976 or thereabouts) I was amazed to see one office door sporting a perfectly rendered logo for “Captain American and de FowlCoon”. Jokes about Black Goliath being “the Big Nig” were common, and one writer -- whom I shall not name, for sadly obvious reasons -- used to say he wanted to do a Black Goliath story titled “The Jig is Up!”
***********
Wow. That's incredible.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17671
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 4
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JB: Yes, clearly it is an example of the insidiously brilliant stealth racism I have been practising for decades. You know -- including strong, intelligent, fully integrated Black characters in my work. Casting minorities of all races and genders as authority figures. Suggesting non-specified characters be members of minority groups.
Something I have mentioned (to no avail) in the past at other forums when the racism charge has been leveled against you.
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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 5
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I'm sure that sexism was pretty rampant too. I imagine there were a lot of jokes about "Ms. Marvel" and her rampant feminism.
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Scott Michael
Byrne Robotics Member
Membership Terminated
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 550
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 6
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JB - What was the response of the editors at Marvel to the
Kirby-bashing? Didn't these people have any shame?
Respect? They, it could be argued, owed their jobs to
Kirby. In the workplace today this sort of thing would get you
fired pronto.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 7
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I wonder if you know what this piece was for, JB?*** As I recall it was a cover for a European comic. German? Don't remember the title.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 8
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On one of my earliest trips into the “new” Marvel offices, after I started working for them full time (around 1976 or thereabouts) I was amazed to see one office door sporting a perfectly rendered logo for “Captain American and de FowlCoon”. Jokes about Black Goliath being “the Big Nig” were common, and one writer -- whom I shall not name, for sadly obvious reasons -- used to say he wanted to do a Black Goliath story titled “The Jig is Up!”++++ Wow. That's incredible. ***** Not really. As noted, this was long before the PC Police attempted to strip the Nation of its sense of humor -- even when that humor was in deliberate and obvious bad taste. No one at the offices thought for a moment there was anything "proper" about this -- and, in fact, that was precisely why these things happened.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 9
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What was the response of the editors at Marvel to the Kirby-bashing?**** Mostly it was the editors doing the bashing. As I have noted many a time, in an industry notorious for not respecting its past, Kirby was very lucky to finally receive the adoration that was his due, without actually having to die to get it!
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Doug Hancock
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Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 10
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Brian Talley
I would like to say that I was amazed at what I was reading
over at the other boards regarding this. But I can't. Posters at
Millarworld and Newsarama doing everything but calling JB a Klansman,
and this was before he posted his response to the inquiry regarding the
art. Now of course these same people will say that John is covering for
Terry, or just outright lying about doing it himself. The artwork
passed through a lot of hands and the part in question could have been
done anywhere along the line. And of course, these people are too
gutless to come here and throw their accusations around.
This is why I posted it over here. I'm Fazhoul over on Newsarama and I
got tired of everyone calling John a racist, among other things, but
not having the nerve to stop by here and ask the man himself.
Thanks for answering John even though I know your "I have no idea."
reply won't be sufficient for some people over at Newsarama.
Doug Hancock
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Jason Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 11
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Holy shit, Will Eisner was a racist!
Seriously, what a shock that something like the parent post would come from the mongoloids over at Millarworld/Newsrama. Kudos to you, you nattering nabobs of negativity, you princes of basement dwellers, you kings of the McDonald's drive-thru line.
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Doug Hancock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6
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| Posted: 12 November 2005 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 12
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Jason Fulton
Holy shit, Will Eisner was a racist!
Seriously, what a shock that something like the parent post would
come from the mongoloids over at Millarworld/Newsrama. Kudos to you,
you nattering nabobs of negativity, you princes of basement dwellers,
you kings of the McDonald's drive-thru line.
And here I was wondering why I didn't stop by here much anymore.
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Topic Closed)
