"What is it with some writers that they look at a female comic book
character and think, "I know--rape!"

Tell me, is this "startling revelation" germane to the story?"

Well, I haven't read the issue in question but reviews I've read say the issue also...

SPOILERS

involves incestuous rape between two brothers.  So at least it wasn't out of character for the issue itself.

And I suppose that someone should mention that it's at least possible that the creators who use this rape stuff may know women who've been raped and are trying to say...well, something about the issue in their work.  What it is they're trying to say, I have no idea.

Mike

Rape has no place in a traditional superhero comic.

"involves incestuous rape between two brothers."

I'm stunned.  This is in a Spider-Man comic book?  This?

Now I'm nauseous.

Spider-Man by Lee & Ditko was great because they refused to stick to the "rules". They took chances, they made changes, they let him age, they gave the best cast of villains ever. There was no "illusion of change" when Stan & Steve were at the helm. The problem came long after when fear set in and there was a lack of confidence in doing something that actually changed anything. I believe that Marvel should be taking more chances (and no, I don't mean let's rape Mary Jane). Better to piss off half of fandom but make the other half think you've made the greatest comics of all time, than to make bland, forgettable comics that no one remembers or remotely cares about.

Also coming soon from m***** -

Nice

QUOTE: Spider-Man by Lee & Ditko was great because they refused to stick to the "rules". They took chances, they made changes, they let him age, they gave the best cast of villains ever. There was no "illusion of change" when Stan & Steve were at the helm. The problem came long after when fear set in and there was a lack of confidence in doing something that actually changed anything. I believe that Marvel should be taking more chances (and no, I don't mean let's rape Mary Jane). Better to piss off half of fandom but make the other half think you've made the greatest comics of all time, than to make bland, forgettable comics that no one remembers or remotely cares about.

Lee and Ditko also created the character.  Roger Stern had one of the best runs  on Spider-Man ever.  How many big changes did he makev to Peter Parker's life?  None he just told fantastic stories.

But the illusion kicked in not long after, when it became obvious that the book was going to be around for a while. And, legend has it, at least one of the reasons Ditko left was a disagreement with Stan over the aging of the characters. Ditko maintains to this day that Parker should never be more than 16.

That's very interesting. What would Spider-Man have been like if Stan had left and Ditko stayed?

And, legend has it, at least one of the reasons Ditko left was a disagreement with Stan over the aging of the characters. Ditko maintains to this day that Parker should never be more than 16.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Never heard of that one before. From everything I read it was Stan & Steve's disagreement over who the Green Goblin should be was the cause of Steve leaving.

Once the comic became successful, they stopped doing one of the key things that made them successful. So by the time we got to the 80s, Spider-Man was a pretty dull book. No Spider-Man comics from that time are remembered as fondly by fandom as a whole as Miller's Daredevil. Great art is about taking chances and do something different, and by definition taking a chance can also mean you fuck up sometimes.

Never heard of that one before. From everything I read it was Stan & Steve's disagreement over who the Green Goblin should be was the cause of Steve leaving.

***

Although Ditko says that isn't the reason, the old legend, but Stan knew or could have known if he wanted to, my belief on everything I have read is that it was broader than the Goblin, but basically came down to Ditko putting his philosophy into the strip, which Stan did not agree with, and Stan and Steve disputing story points and plot control.

I've never read anywgere that it had to do with aging.  Certainly in nothing Roy Thomas or John romita have said. but then JB would certainly here more stuff than me by light years.

"So by the time we got to the 80s, Spider-Man was a pretty dull book. No Spider-Man comics from that time are remembered as fondly by fandom as a whole as Miller's Daredevil." 

Very few comics from any time are remembered as fondly as Miller's Daredevil.  But I bet there's a lot of folks who remember things like the mystery over the Hobgoblin's identity or the outstanding two-parter involving Spider-Man, Will O' The Wisp and The Tarantula quite fondly.

Mike

And, legend has it, at least one of the reasons Ditko left was a disagreement with Stan over the aging of the characters.

***

How does that work though? The characters aged while Ditko was there, and stopped aging when Ditko left and were frozen at 18-19.

You would think if Ditko was anti-aging, and Stan pro-aging, when Ditko left, Stan would have kept aging. Instead, he stopped it right where it was-with Peter in college.