But I bet there's a lot of folks who remember things like the mystery over the Hobgoblin's identity or the outstanding two-parter involving Spider-Man, Will O' The Wisp and The Tarantula quite fondly.

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Or Kraven's Last Hunt. Or the early Venom stuff. or the Saga of the alien costume.  or the McFarlane stuff.

Miller was abl;e to do radical things with a "failed" character like Daredevil.  You couldn;t do such things with a successful character like Spider-man.  Miller's Daredevil was  a giant change in character

This is what people miss. Lee & Ditko's changes were the ultimate in the "illusion of change," similar to JB making the Invisible Girl the Invisible Woman. It seems momentous but when you step back and think about it, it doesn't change the dynamic all that much -- unlike having Peter Parker get married or Aunt May discover his secret identity.

Peter "aged" -- though arguably no more than most comic book characters did (even in the Silver Age, you'd get comments from Superman and Batman about having fought a villain "years ago" or started their careers "years ago" -- with a high school student, though, "years ago" is quite a lot of time*). However, he was still a teenage student who lived with his aunt (even if he was a college student). The first step in the wrong direction was when he moved out his aunt's house -- then the dynamic was changing (though, even that can be the illusion of change, because he can always move back for any number of reasons).

Aunt May deciding to move to Florida in ASM 400 "writes her out" of the book just as much as killing her but the former is the "illusion of change" because she can come back. The latter is distinct, irrevocable change.

*Spider-Man is one of those characters who really shouldn't have "years of experience." The current character is written that way yet is supposed to still be the hard-luck hero who makes mistakes. Huh? He's not Batman or Captain America. I would prefer if his career spanned "months" rather than "years" myself.

Of course, if I had my way, the X-Men would still be the "strangest teens of all."

Miller was abl;e to do radical things with a "failed" character like Daredevil.  You couldn;t do such things with a successful character like Spider-man.  Miller's Daredevil was  a giant change in character
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Which I think describes the problem exactly. Spider-Man's success meant that no one felt able to do anything risky with him. Now I understand why it happens as Marvel wanted to keep what they had and not do anything stupid but you end up with drift with that mentality. To keep the franchise fresh and healthy, it needs spicing up every now and then, giving the reader's something out of left field just to keep them interested, otherwise you end up with what happened with Superman where you need reimagings on a wider scale.

Okay, see, this is the part where you have to pay attention to all the words. Like the ones that refer to the illusion of change becoming the model when Stan realized the book was going to stick around for a while.

Which I think describes the problem exactly. Spider-Man's success meant that no one felt able to do anything risky with him. Now I understand why it happens as Marvel wanted to keep what they had and not do anything stupid but you end up with drift with that mentality. To keep the franchise fresh and healthy, it needs spicing up every now and then, giving the reader's something out of left field just to keep them interested, otherwise you end up with what happened with Superman where you need reimagings on a wider scale.

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Your argument falls apart when you realise that during Millar's run on Daredevil that Roger Stern was doing fantastic work on Amazing.

Was it? Frank certainly changed the tone of the book, and layered in a great deal more to Matt's backstory -- adding Stick, for instance, for which there was much complaining from DD fans at the time -- but nothing he did actually changed who Daredevil was. That's something too many current writers simply don't get -- and it goes right to the whole point of "illusion of change".

But it doesn't satisfy the sick f**ks who want to see a harmless old lady die. (Wow! If only they could have raped her first! That would have been Keeeeewl!!)

As far as the 80's Spider-Man goes, I'll add in my two cents that DeFalco and Frenz had some pretty good stories produced in that era as well.