Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 6 Next >>
Topic: JBF Reading Club: West Coast Avengers #43 (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132316
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 1  

… the whole "twins being fragments of Mephisto" is being retconned in Young Avengers right now…

***

Well, that should be interesting, since they were not "fragments of Mephisto" to begin with.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Rick Hannah
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 547
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 2  

The reasoning for Wanda and the Vision to be married is something I never could quite get my head around. The idea of them having actual children tho, is simply ridiculous.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Daniel Kendrick
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3020
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 3  

Billy and Tommy coming back is about the same as soap opera kids growing up between seasons. At least on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air the poked fun at it.

"Well, Byrne destroyed them as kids, so let's bring them back as if they were never gotten rid of, and make them teenagers so they can interact with the Young Avenger's."

Next year we'll see Franklin Richard's disappear for 3 months and have him return having graduated college and dating Scott Lang's daughter.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 4  


 QUOTE:
Well, that should be interesting, since they were not "fragments of Mephisto" to begin with.


SPOILERS AHEAD







It was Master Pandemonium, right?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Christopher Harnez
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | 5  


 QUOTE:
Billy and Tommy coming back is about the same as soap opera kids growing up between seasons. At least on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air the poked fun at it.

"Well, Byrne destroyed them as kids, so let's bring them back as if they were never gotten rid of, and make them teenagers so they can interact with the Young Avenger's."

I don't think that's the case. We don't know how they came back exactly yet, but Byrne's story was directly referenced.




Edited by Christopher Harnez on 20 May 2007 at 5:20pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Daniel Kendrick
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3020
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 6  

um, the page kinda proved the point behind what I was saying.

How "old" were they when they disappeared?
And how much "time" has passed since then?
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Christopher Harnez
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 7  

So what's your problem; that they were brought back in the first place?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Chris Durnell
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1235
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 8  

I agree that the love affair of Vision and the Scarlet Witch seems odd, but it makes sense in way that "comic book logic" works.  If you think the Vision is simply a robot, then it's particular weird.  This is how the Ultimates seem to be handling it. 

However, the Vision is not a robot, but a synthetic man.  Roy Thomas called him a synthozoid, but I think Roy just like to show off by using long words.  The Vision was supposed to have been the original Human Torch, and the original Human Torch was an "android" - not robot - who seemed like an artificial, but still biological man.  He had blood, looked human, breathed, had emotions, and presumably had hormones just as any real man did.  If we remember this, then we can see that the Vision was much more like a man than any robot.

Englehart, who created the twins, seemed to think it was very important to the Vision and the Scarlet Witch creatively, but I don't think it added a lot to them.  It just complicated a lot things.  He was probably wrong in doing it, but once established I think it should simply have been left alone.  JB "fixing" it by making them to have never existed just made a weird situation even creepier.  Still, who knows how everything would have turned out had JB been allowed to complete his storyline.  I don't think it's correct to judge the merit of an aborted run - some storylines just need to be played out in full before we can say whether it was a good idea or not.  I was not bothered by the new depiction of the Vision because such things can easily be restored in the course of a storyline.

However, now that the twins are gone, I feel this is yet another occassion where they should have been left behind in peace.  Bringing up this old bit of continuity only highlights the problem.  Nor is it necessary.  One problem of today's comics is that they keep dredging up old bits of lore, when the writers should be thinking of NEW things to delight and amaze us.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Daniel Kendrick
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3020
Posted: 20 May 2007 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | 9  

No, the problem I have is their age.

Billy and Tommy coming back is about the same as soap opera kids growing up between seasons. At least on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air the poked fun at it.

It's very common in American soap operas to see a baby born, then they become a toddler. Then magically they disappear for a year or two and come back as teens. During one season of Fresh Prince, "Aunt Viv" has a son Nikki. Waht can I say, the youngest daughter became a teen and they got a new one at the Cosby talent agency. For a season or two Nikki is a baby up until the season ends. Jazzy comes back from visiting Philly and a 4-5 year old walks by, says Hi Jazz and exits. When he asks who the kid was Will replies oh, that's Nikki, then makes an off-hand explanation about hey it works in the soaps when the age is brought up.

To me they wanted a "Quicksilver" to go with their "Scarlet Witch" and now the (more or less) traditional line-up is complete.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Christopher Harnez
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: 21 May 2007 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 10  

That's not really comparable.

What would be comparable would be if Franklin was suddenly a teenager and it was accepted as the norm.

We don't know the full origins of Wiccan or Speed yet, but it's not like they just walked by the dinner table and Scarlet Witch said, "Hey boys, did you brush your teeth?"

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132316
Posted: 21 May 2007 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 11  

It took the producers of ANGEL a while to realize that giving their "young" lead a teenage son was a bad idea. I wonder how long it will take ^^***** to figure out the same thing?

Those who do not learn from the mistakes of history…

Back to Top profile | search
 
Christopher Harnez
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: 21 May 2007 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 12  

I think it was a worse idea to retcon them away and destroy Wanda and Vision's relationship.

Edited by Christopher Harnez on 21 May 2007 at 2:31pm
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 6 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login