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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

In the spirit of strictly regulated laws predicated on the age of legal responsibility, like the age you are allowed to adopt a child, enter the army or get a drivers license, I would not be averse to a law forbidding adopting a religion until 18. Then, children could be given a balanced education on all the religions of the world (where they'd need to pass tests) and then make an informed decision on which creed (if any) to adopt.

Or would that be a problem because indoctrination in dogma from childhood is necessary for religion to work at all?
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

>> Included the disturbing advice not to worry about “the color of his hair, or the length of his skin”. <<

That's an interesting, unintended "dyslexic" twist. :)

Edited by Michael Penn on 28 June 2022 at 1:43pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I thought of that slip several years later when I read THE MAKING OF THE ATOMIC BOMB by Richard Rhodes. The final chapters included descriptions of survivors at Hiroshima and Nagasaki stumbling around with their flesh hanging from them like shredded kimonos.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I saw little children holding signs for both pro and anti- abortion choice gatherings recently. I've never thought children belonged at any kind of protest, outside something like the famous chocolate strike where kids picketed about a rise in candy bar prices. No religious affiliation before 18 sounds sensible to me. Just like many people take a trade similar or the same as a parent they will generally take on whatever religion is around them. The Bible does often make allusions to our being sheep mind you... s'truth!

What does football particularly have to do with God, how do they know he even understands the rules, what if he were much more a cricket or wrestling fan, or for lawn darts? Do people break into 'worship' before dance competitions or in the parking lot after grocery shopping? How do they feel about employing devout Muslims that say they must stop everything to bow in a certain direction in unison five times a day? Time out ref, we've got to get the prayer mats out! No, much too show-offy, seems gauche I'd say.
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

My football team always said the Lord's Prayer before and after each game. It's wasn't to pray for a win, it was a prayer for everyone walking on the field before to be able to walk off the field after.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

SCOTUS seriously needs to be reminded that there's separation of church and state for a reason. 


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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Yes—and it is to protect the State from the Church, not the other way around!
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John Wickett
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Jason-

Thanks for posting more information.  I googled the case after seeing your original post, and the first article that popped up (New York Post) reported it differently.  

They said "after the school district warned him to stop in 2015, Kennedy said he prayed without his students, but still at the 50 yard line" and "he added that if he came back, he would continue to pray publicly, but without his team."

Given the additional context, I would tend to agree with you.
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John Wickett
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"My football team always said the Lord's Prayer before and after each game. It's wasn't to pray for a win, it was a prayer for everyone walking on the field before to be able to walk off the field after."

I ran track and cross country all four years in HS.  Technically, we had separate boys and girls teams with different coaches, but we frequently practiced together, and we rode to all of the meets together, so our team was was around the girls' coach all the time.  

She used to openly pray before all of the meets.  As I recall, she would pray that we and our opponents would all perform at our best level, that no one would get hurt, and that good sportsmanship would be shown by everyone.

Few of us on the boys' team were religious, and none of us ever participated in her prayers (a few of the girls did), but we tried to be respectful by remaining silent while she prayed.  

I don't think anyone was ever offended by her.  At the time, I had never given the existence of God more than a moment's thought, and I probably considered prayer a waste of time.  But I knew that it was important to her, and she was praying for us because she cared about us.  In that regard, I appreciated her for it. 

Had we ever been pressured to pray, or felt that praying with her would give us some type of advantage on the team, then I would have had a problem with it. 
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

>> "My football team always said the Lord's Prayer before and after each game. It's wasn't to pray for a win, it was a prayer for everyone walking on the field before to be able to walk off the field after." <<

Reminds me of Portia (in disguise) invoking to Shylock the Lord's Prayer:

"We do pray for mercy,/ And that same prayer doth teach us all to render/ The deeds of mercy."

..."that same prayer doth teach us all," eh? 

Hmm. Really...?
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Why wouldn't someone just say I want you all to play fair and play your best win or lose, to play safe, yatta-yatta without invoking some higher power behind the scenes of even a game? Do they do everything third-person? Substitute God or Jesus or whoever else "loves you" because they can't say I love you? Do they also use a my God judges you as wrong approach to pretend to avoid personal judgement and thus responsibility for thinking or speaking for themselves?

I opted out of morning prayer chant in secular elementary school and was 'punished' by being told to stand in the hall a couple of times, ostracized from the majority conforming, but later I didn't discriminate in that I willingly went to a Christian school to finish grades 9 & 10 and attended the weekly Bible study class they included without complaint or great debate.

Unfortunately I think a lot of this falls under mental illness, including all magical thinking that might not be religious. Do we want to encourage or pander to mental illnesses? Hearing voices, belief in unseen hierarchies or beings, compulsive good luck or warding off of bad luck habits...

I can talk to you, I may not be able to talk to your God. I think if I could talk to that coach I would ask; why are you choosing to bring your God into other people's game? How is this not like a child demanding a place at the table for their invisible friend?

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 28 June 2022 at 8:43pm
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John Wickett
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Posted: 28 June 2022 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

"Yes—and it is to protect the State from the Church, not the other way around!"

I've always perceived it as being purposed to protect the individual from both institutions.
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