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Richard Stevens Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1957
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Posted: 06 June 2024 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 1
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pretty sure the sixth amendment isn't real. they skipped right from five to seven.
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Casey Sager Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 749
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Posted: 06 June 2024 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | 2
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I don't understand what he's getting at. Doesn't the defense get pretty much all the evidence during discovery? What surprises is he talking about?
Either he's an attorney or wannabe, either way I'm going to go with the guy who's been a judge since 2006 over some random dude on a comic book message board.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12777
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Posted: 06 June 2024 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | 3
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ABC News: "What potential grounds does Donald Trump have to appeal his hush money conviction?"
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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 875
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Posted: 07 June 2024 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 4
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"Doesn't the defense get pretty much all the evidence during discovery?"
Yes. The argument isn't that the prosecution had any surprise evidence. Its that Trump didn't know exactly what he was accused of prior to closing arguments.
The reason that's important is because if prosecutors had been more transparent, Trump's attorneys may have presented their case differently, or presented different evidence to refute the accusation that he committed one of the specified violations of 17-152.
But you're still raising a good point. In Bragg's defense, Trump's lawyers couldn't have been totally clueless about where this was going. When attorney's disclose their witnesses and evidence during discovery, its not just a list of witnesses. You have to disclose what each witness will be testifying about. Also, during the trial, each side has to lay a foundation to establish the relevance of each piece of evidence, or it is inadmissible. Surely, the basis for introducing some of the prosecution's evidence was to prove criminal intent.
Despite your point, I think the appellate court will overturn the verdicts based on the notice issue (among others). One thing you have to remember is that our court rules are built upon the principal that we would rather see a guilty person go free, than convict an innocent person. So when it comes to issues like this, courts tend to prioritize protecting the rights of the accused.
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6539
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Posted: 07 June 2024 at 12:52am | IP Logged | 5
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JW: The appeal will be on 6th Amendment grounds. Attorneys will argue they had no notice of the three potential crimes Trump intended to commit under 17-152, because prosecutors didn't reveal them until their closing arguments. Theoretically, this prevented Trump's lawyers from being able to mount a defense against those accusations. That is solid grounds for an appeal.
**
This aspect of the case was in the news long before the trial was over. It was much discussed that guilt would be determined by jurors who could choose from a menu of three potential crimes. But now, somehow, no one knew until the closing arguments?
How did I know it, but the defense didn't?
Sounds like a non-starter.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 07 June 2024 at 5:01am
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12777
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Posted: 07 June 2024 at 2:37am | IP Logged | 6
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This is a copy of the text directly from the prosecution's memorandum of law in opposition to Defendant Trump's omnibus motions, dated November 15, 2023.
Edited by Michael Penn on 07 June 2024 at 2:43am
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8664
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Posted: 07 June 2024 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 7
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Trump very well might win the appeal, unfortunately.
But what's ticking me off is his documents case. Judge Cannon is a perfect example of why a judge appointed by a President should not be allowed to have anything to do with that President's legal proceedings. She's obviously doing everything she can get away with to either sabotage the documnents case or delay it until after the election, so he can order the DoJ to drop it if he wins and takes office. Because his guilt is obvious in this case.
Cannon should be thrown off the bench, or at least thrown off the case and banned from interfering.
Edited by Brian Floyd on 07 June 2024 at 3:45pm
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6539
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Posted: 07 June 2024 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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Brian: Cannon should be thrown off the bench, or at least thrown off the case and banned from interfering.
**
One of the effects of Trump is seeing the way he finds the loopholes in the system. How crazy is it that no mechanism exists to counteract this obvious corruption?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133644
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Posted: 07 June 2024 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 9
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Plugging holes in that particular dyke would have to be done by the very people most likely to take advantage of them.
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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 875
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Posted: 07 June 2024 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 10
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"This is a copy of the text directly from the prosecution's memorandum of law in opposition to Defendant Trump's omnibus motions, dated November 15, 2023."
Well, that resolves the notice issue, IMO. Thanks for sharing. Many media outlets, including the ABC News story you linked to above, are reporting the charges weren't disclosed until closing.
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David Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3120
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Posted: 08 June 2024 at 12:20am | IP Logged | 11
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Gotta hand it to Republicans, their coordinated misinformation campaign has been thoroughly successful. Even much of the hated liberal media uncritically repeats such deceptive framing. They're trying to do the same thing with Steve Bannon's pending incarceration.
If the case against Trump was such bullshit, they wouldn't need to lie.
Edited by David Miller on 08 June 2024 at 12:24am
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36121
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Posted: 08 June 2024 at 6:26am | IP Logged | 12
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Yes. It’s akin to the MSM not jumping on Trump for saying late last week that he never called for Hillary Clinton to be locked up. Except for the thousands of hours of rally tapes in 2015 where he did exactly that. He is, at best, a disingenuous son of a bitch and, at worst, a frightfully terrible human being with revenge on his mind. My vote is for the latter.
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