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Frank Robert
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 1  

> BIRTHRIGHT didn't take the everything you know is a lie route. That was intended more as a re-boot.

Time was altered by the events of Superman 200 and a new timeline -- the Birthright timeline -- resulted.  Nothing was revealed to be a lie ... things were just changed via reboot.

> Maybe you're thinking of the RETURN TO KRYPTON arc. Reportedly suggested by Walt Simonson, this story said that the Silver Age Krypton was the true Krypton and that the MoS version was a facade.

The RETURN TO KRYPTON  Kypton was a construct of Brainiac's design.  It wasn't "true" at all and it didn't supplant anything in continuity or *reveal anything as a lie."  IT was a lie, in fact.

_Frank Robert

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Jon Godson
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 2  

Alan Moore did it in SWAMP THING, Mark Wade did it in BIRTHRIGHT†, the
approach seems to have been taken several times with Hawkman. In fact,
in recent years it has become difficult to find characters who haven't been
subject to this. Wolverine has been hit by it a couple of times, even tho
we really didn't "know" much to begin with.

So, today's question, class -- is this innovation, or lazy writing? Is it new,
or is it just different? And, perhaps most important, should it be a first
resort, or the absolute last?

*****************

I prefer the "everything you know is a lie" to just a re-boot. As long as
the characters - or team, as in the case of Doom Patrol - are undergoing
a change, at least with the "everything you know" strategy there is an
attempt not to erase existing history of the characters. In many ways, the
re-boot is the lazy way out.
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Ed Love
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 3  

I often prefer the reboot. The reboot lets the original stories stand on
their own, they maintain their own continuity and power of the creator's
vision, especially in the case of The Doom Patrol. By rebooting, Byrne
doesn't change one iota of Morrison's Doom Patrol. Whereas, Morrison's
"everything you know is a lie" approach to the Chief and the original
Doom Patrol, he retroactively taints and rewrites all of the previous comic
stories by completely changing their context. It's hard to read and enjoy
the older DP comics if you're not a fan of Morrison's take if you allow
yourself to consider the two part of the same continuity.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 4  

It's hard to read and enjoy the older DP comics if you're not a fan of Morrison's take if you allow yourself to consider the two part of the same continuity.

I'd say that the 20-year gulf between the end of the original Doom Patrol's story and Grant Morrison's version of the book makes it pretty easy to separate the two. With all the reboots and semi-reboots of Marvel and DC characters over the past five years or so, I think that continuity in the "you can map out every single Iron Man comic into a coherent timeline"sense is pretty much out the window at this point.

Technically speaking, that should result in more reader-friendly books that are accessible to anyone who picks up any random issue or trade paperback. In practice, though, the results are all over the place.
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Jon Godson
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 5  

By rebooting, Byrne doesn't change one iota of Morrison's Doom Patrol.

*************

No, but more importantly, it did change Arnold Drake and Bruno Premiani's
Doom Patrol. ("But it was in the same spirit..." Yeah, yeah. Whatever.")
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 6  


 QUOTE:
EYKIAL

****

Isn't he one of the Eternals?

I was thinking he was a Deviant.



Edited by Mike Norris on 07 December 2006 at 9:17pm
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Sean Hollenhors
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | 7  

"EYKIAL

****

Isn't he one of the Eternals?"

HAW!
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Jason Michalski
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | 8  

JB:

Did you read Birthright? I'm just curious as to why you don't consider it a reboot.

Thanks.


Edited by Jason Michalski on 07 December 2006 at 11:17pm
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | 9  

"this just seems like a "lets all slag off creators that are still respected and gainfully employed on a monthly basis" kind of thread,"

It's official. If you're a writer who's not good pals with Joe Quesada, you must be turning tricks or something equally disrespectable and ungainful.
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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 07 December 2006 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | 10  

If only you could have written your post in Crayola, JZ. Good Ol' McCrackan probably won't get it otherwise.
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Andy Ihnatko
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 11  

I think sometimes you serve the book best by saying "It's only a comic book" and doing what needs to be done. Peter Parker was called "Peter Palmer" at some point in his origin issue. One way of dealing with that is to manufacture an entire second character with his own separate backstory and retcon  him into that world, carefully explaining how one got confused with the other with the obsessive forensic detail of Perry Mason just before the end credits.

Another way to go: acknowledge that it was a dumb mistake and pretend it never happened. Why waste time?

Imagine that back in the Nineties, an increasingly-desperate writer tried to save his book from cancellation by announcing that a character with 40 years of continuity was actually a gay vampire doppelganger controlled by aliens. It got cancelled three issues later regardless. Now it's ten years later. A new writer has a terrific idea for this character. Should he solve the Gay Alien Vampire Robot problem, or just assume that (a) almost nobody knows about that stuff, and more importantly (b) nobody cares?

Refusing to acknowledge past history is often just a lame, lazy way of avoiding having to come up with ideas. But sometimes, it's just the right thing to do.

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James Revilla
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Posted: 08 December 2006 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 12  

And sometimes these charcaters mean something to someone. There are a lot of people who went...huh ? Vision ? Um ok....hes a robot again when WCA came out. And others who SCREAMED Byrne messed with the heart of the Avengers. Ethier way Byrne went through and researched all the orgin tales that had been told and made one cohesive story out of it. Would have been a lot easier to say,,,hey let's have She Hulk kill Hawakeye to sell some books...we will always find a way to bring him back later....it's just a comic book.

Some charcater is always someone's favorite, and just cause the writer doesnt care about them, doesnt mean they should get to write like they dont care about them. Every character has a backstory that someone at some point int heir life thought about and contributed to it. And to say....its onoly a comic book and no one cares about this guy anyways is just more lazt writing to me.



Edited by James Revilla on 08 December 2006 at 2:36am
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