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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2168
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | 1
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Always liked Nomad and although I agree bringing Bucky back is not a good
idea, the story has been well-written so far.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17671
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 2
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Thomas, I know I'm late to the game, but you had an excellent list.
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Thomas Moudry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 3
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Oh, thanks, Wallace!
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5626
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 4
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some anal retentive writer decided the Captain America/Bucky stories of the 1950s just HAD to be explained,
This is a bit of mind-reading, I think. The writer may have thought it would be a good story. That doesn't mean he thought it HAD to be done. There are plenty of good stories that come from old continuity. They can be good stories. But they don't HAVE to be done.
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Robert Last
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Joined: 07 February 2006
Posts: 615
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:01pm | IP Logged | 5
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JB, a couple of pages back you asked me to list what I felt were traditional Marvel comics.
Well, I'd say those that use the same tricks and turns Stan did back in the day. You'd get dramatic revelations, shocking developments, heroic action, the hero questioning if they were doing the right thing even though it was obvious to us the reader they were. All this, and Stan would still have set things up so pretty much anything could be changed back, despite the "..and things will never be the same again!" story tags.
I honestly think Ed Brubaker is one of those writers that really get how you construct a superhero comic book in that way. I've read Marvels pretty much all my life, from Pre-Marvel monster books right up to modern day, and while I'd agree there's an awful lot of garbage now, it's totally wrong to label it ALL garbage.
I detest Civil War for many reasons - shoddy storytelling, bad characterisation, etc etc, and many books have been derailed or damaged because of it.
I wish I could persuade you to take a look at Brubaker's work. He has a great deal of potential, and as long as Quesada doesn't ruin him (like I believe he's in the process of doing with Bendis, who may never recover) he'll hopefully continue to produce good stuff.
As for other recent books that had that traditional Marvel feel, I'd cite the Union Jack mini - full on super-heroics, with a real hero doing what had to be done at full speed!
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 6
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Stan told good stories that often had built-in escape hatches.
What's the point in telling destructive stories that may or may not have escape hatches?
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Robert Last
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Joined: 07 February 2006
Posts: 615
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 7
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Just to qualify what I mean when I say Quesada has almost ruined Bendis -
I believe Bendis is an exceptional writer, but one that would really benefit from a much stronger, more traditional editorial hand. This is perhaps one of the reasons some like myself would like JB to work with one or two of the current guys - I believe JB could BE that guiding hand. I'd like to see someone who not only says "no" but has the experience to back it up. Simple as that. Old school discipline applied to new talent.
If you'll forgive me, I should have been in bed a couple of hours ago! I'm much too old for these late night typing binges!
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 8
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When Lee & Kirby brought Captain America back in the early 60s, the 1950s stories were NOT part of continuity--Lee and Co simply didn't bother mentioning them again. And that was fine, until some fans or a creator decided to muddy up the waters because of some forgettable comics that appeared ten years earlier. . So then we get fed some complicated nonsense about two more guys playing the parts of CA and Bucky after WWII, who are then put on ice, only to be brought back later, etc, etc. It's...stupid. This is where OVERTHINKING things becomes a problem in a medium that should be pretty straightforward and simple.
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John OConnor
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Joined: 01 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1108
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | 9
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Don [earlier] wrote..."Jack Monroe was a joke of a character as well--wasn't he created because some anal retentive writer decided the Captain America/Bucky stories of the 1950s just HAD to be explained, instead of say, I don't know, just IGNORING them? "
well, therein lies the problem, doesn't it? You apparently don't like those stories, but to me, they're among the best Marvel ever did. Loved 'em as a kid, and still love 'em now. The stuff I don't like, I ignore, and hope that a new team picks up the slack for me. kinda like potato/tomato.....
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 10
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Looking at the Marvel Universe today, it seems like so many of the storylines that have taken the characters down wrong paths would have been used to tell What If? stories back in the day. What if Spider-Man had joined the Fantastic Four? What if Spider-Man's cloned had lived?
Now those types of goofy ideas have become injected into the mainstream universe and accepted as perfectly reasonable. What If Peter Parker was married? What If the Green Goblin hadn't died? What if Wolverine joined the Avengers? What if Captain American and Iron Man went to war? What if Ned Leeds had been the Hobgoblin? What if Wolverine appeared in half a dozen books every month? What if Marvel's Characters aged at the same rate as our readers did?
Ugh.
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Don Zomberg
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Joined: 23 November 2005
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 11
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You may love the CA/Bucky stories of the 1950s, John, but that doesn't mean they had to be explained and shoehorned into continuity once Captain America was revived in Avengers # 4. Don't work so hard at missing the point next time.
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Greg Kirkman
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Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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Right on, Don. Right on.
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Topic Closed)
