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Josh Goldberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2065
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 1
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JB, can you tell us what changes were made to this issue?
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 2
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Wow...this is one of the most powerful issues of Mr. Byrne's run, and now it's our chance to know more about the genesis of this book.
BTW, Mr. Byrne, is it true Kurt Busiek's story about that he inspired the story of this issue?
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 3
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From the "Unpublished Art" Gallery:
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Chris Blaise
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 4
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The micromanagement explains a lot.
The first time I read it I thought it seemed very "off" the usual Byrne FF artwork and writing.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132345
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 5
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As you all know by now, Chris was never able to let go of the changes that were forced upon us in X-MEN 137. Luckily, I was able to take a step back, look at the finished product, and realize it was actually better than what we had planned. But Chris has spent all the years since trying to "undo" 137 -- most pointedly by changing Phoenix into a benevolent force that was corrupted by Jean's humanity (not even close to the original point!). In this issue as I wrote and drew it, Phoenix is portrayed as a malevolent entity, in keeping with what Chris and I had developed in the process of doing what became the "Dark Phoenix Saga". (Remember Princess Lilandra's comments that she had feared all along that Phoenix would go bad? That was a bit of retofitting we did to make our story work.) When Chris was brought in to do the rewrite, he went with the version of Phoenix he was trying to make out of the original. All these years later, of course, few people (probably not even Chris himself!) truly remember, if they ever even knew, what that original really was.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132345
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 6
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Oh, and yes, the idea that Jean was not Phoenix
came from a young fan named Kurt Busiek.
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Bruce Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 7
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This is, of course, the issue that was micromanaged by Shooter. Every line of art and script was fully and completely approved. Then I announced I was going to do Superman, and suddenly chunks of it had to be redrawn by Jackson Guice and rewritten by Claremont.
*******
That's just mean-spirited, vindictive behavior on Shooter's part.
I've seen similar things happen in other industries - a person announces they are moving on to a different employer, so they get mistreated on the way out. It's completely uncalled for, though. You had given Marvel everything they had paid you for and then some. Heck, you even wanted to stay on the FF and when you couldn't, you still left in a professional manner. Not sure why Shooter couldn't return the same courtesy.
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CJ Grebb
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 449
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 8
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I knew we'd get to this one eventually.
This was the first Byrne comic I ever bought. And I must admit the only reason I bothered (I was not an FF fan, back then) was because I wanted all of the issues associated with X-Factor.
I remember quite clearly being blown away by the art. Looking back, I think I was only then starting to really be able to recognize good comic art from bad, and although concepts such as layout and storytelling were more or less unknown to me, something about the way this art looked "clicked" in my head.
The page with Sue waking up was a particular standout. I really couldn't believe how well-drawn her head was. Not the linework. I mean how the construction of the head - the anatomy - was "right." It looked symetrical, not wobbly or doughy like so many artists of the day. The eyes were in the right place, the mouth was in the right place, etc. The last panel on that page really blew me away as well. To this day, I don't have the command of human anatomy to be able to draw a head from the 3/4 above angle that Captain America's head is drawn. At that age, it was like seeing a magic trick. Now I can also see how well designed that panel is, with Hercules selling the weightlessness and the eye being drawn left to right to sell the idea of Reed's arm stretching.
I instantly searched for the artist in the credits. Imagine my surprise. Luckily, I was also a regular Marvel Age collector, and by looking through past issues, it was no trick to find out that this Byrne guy had drawn it (although in my head, I was pronouncing it "By-ron".)
Ironically, I followed JB to Man of Steel, and never picked up FF again for MANY years. If Shooter hadn't insisted on the crossover, I probably never would have given DC so much business.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132345
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 9
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…in my head, I was pronouncing it "By-ron"…
•••
At least that makes sense! "Brine" is the one that
mystifies me!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 10
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If Shooter hadn't insisted on the crossover…••• Shooter didn't insist on the crossover. Roger Stern and I cooked it up and presented it to him. That was our mistake. That was when he started micromanaging.
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Aric Shapiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4349
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 11
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Brine? I can't imagine anyone coming up with that. I said Byron until someone corrected me about five years ago or so.
Still, nothing should suprise me when it comes to destroying names. I have so much trouble with "Ari" Your name is what? Rai? Ira? Ori? 3 stupid letters
Edited by Aric Shapiro on 17 September 2007 at 11:12am
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Brian Peck
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1709
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| Posted: 17 September 2007 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 12
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Here are the slightly larger versions of the unpublished pages I own (still
have never seen either of the other two unpublished pages from the
flashback).
A scan of one of the pages after the flashblack which was published but
had heavy edits.
I am currently looking to put this book back together (ya that might be
impossible) so if anyone knows where any of the original pages are,
please drop me an e-mail. You can see the rest of the original pages I
own from the book up in my caf:
http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=25667
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Topic Closed)
