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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3008
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | 1
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Might as well call him Shazam. It's certainly not Captain Marvel.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35732
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | 2
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Like Spider-Man, Spider-Woman has a hyphen. It's not "Spiderwoman". Pet peeve of mine.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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(Yes, I call him Shazam, not Captain Marvel)••• That's fine. Oh, from now on, I'm going to call you "Brian " *** I know the facts, but it makes more sense calling him Shazam since every comic book and TV show I've ever seen is titled Shazam. I've never seen a comic titled Captain Marvel. (except for Marvel's). Shazam makes such a cool name. Example project where it's implied his name is Shazam: `````````````````` DC is calling Captain Marvel Shazam now. But that's not the characters name.
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Tim Cousar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1663
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 4
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 5
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One of the initial articles that triggered this hue and cry advised Marvel that it was occasions such as this when artwork needs to be rejected and sent back to the artist to be redone. Except this is clearly and without question what Marvel wanted from the artist when they commissioned his work. Manara's style employs overtly sexual female characters, posed in a provocative fashion. His previous work for Marvel was of this exact nature. One could presume he sent in a sketch of his work on this cover before proceeding with it, but even if that opportunity for editorial oversight somehow didn't occur here, Manara is simply doing what Manara does better than almost anyone else out there.
Is this image really that much more sensational than his previous works? Or are we all simply biting at the click-bait dangled by his detractors? Are we all jumping because the PC police tell that here is where we must jump? Because somehow the PC police missed the entire Kotobukiya line of product. And all of those wannabe porno fairy tale books out there. And Howard Chaykin's career output. And Wally Wood's. And Tarpe Mills'. And the AC Comics Line.
Yes, it is a terrible, terrible thing that images of attractive women in alluring or simply eye-catching poses sell product. I have no question in my mind that preventing this one (1) cover will somehow bring all of that to an end, and attractive women will never need feel themselves the target of the unwelcome Male Gaze. Unattractive women will finally find social parity with their taller, leggier sisters and band together to end Male war and Male stupidity in general now that the one (1) single issue dividing them, the sales potential of the female form, has been dashed to the rocks. Raise the banner high, my friends, yes, higher even than Spider-Woman herself has raised her hindquarters in an obvious model of presentation for sexual union.
After this, we'll get started on that whole World Poverty thing. First things first, though.
Does it matter at all that I feel personally violated and unclean because of this variant cover for the March, 2014 DD relaunch...? Can we just chalk this up as a "tit for tat" situation? Or are my feelings simply to be ignored because of my gender? Should I just go back to the garage, shut up, and fix her carburetor, like I was just some... some... menial worker instead of the proud, accomplished individual society should see me as?
There. You've made me cry. Are you happy now? Hm? Are you?
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 6
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Yes, it is a terrible, terrible thing that images of attractive women in alluring or simply eye-catching poses sell product.``````````````` I don't think it's a terrible thing sex sells. That isn't exclusive to comic books. Not just images of attractive women.
How many times have you seen a fat balding man as the face of some ad?
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 7
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Some of y'all are just unwilling to admit that (mainstream) superhero comics, once upon a time, were considered juvenile literature -- and, if the biz were much healthier, they would still be primarily read by kids.
You think that Manara cover is appropriate for your 11-year old son or daughter?
Manara is an erotica artist. A great one. If Marvel wants to ask him to do erotica comics for its Icon imprint, fine. But hiring him to draw a Spider-Woman cover is not appropriate.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132282
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 8
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HEY KIDS! COMICS!That's what the top of the spinner racks used to declare, without shame. Unfortunately, as the fans-turned-pro began to take over the industry, they began to turn the books away from suitable fare for tweens (the primary target audience), and more and more shape the characters and stories in their own image. The kids leave, and the Companies pander increasingly to the fan base that's left -- and aging fan base. A few decades ago there was a great swirl of excitement in the Higher Ups at DC when some demographics showed that the books were attracting older readers. It lasted until someone pointed out these were the SAME reader, just getting older themselves. No (or nearly no) new blood. Just the same old blood, becoming more and more engorged on ennui.
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Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 7359
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Manara is an erotica artist. A great one. If Marvel wants to ask him to do erotica comics for its Icon imprint, fine. But hiring him to draw a Spider-Woman cover is not appropriate.
***
Same with Rockin'JellyBean and that Invisible Woman MILF statue he designed years ago. I still wonder about what lead Marvel to okay her for his underground art-style, instead of the many other sexy superheroines to choose from...
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 10
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There are thousands of exploitative images produced by the comic book industry every year. Why are some people singling out Manara's Spider-Woman piece? Is it because it's just too well-done?
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Brian Peck
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1709
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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Here is an article containing Manara's response to the criticism.
Response
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 12
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There are thousands of exploitative images produced by the comic book industry every year. Why are some people singling out Manara's Spider-Woman piece? Is it because it's just too well-done?
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To an extent. A lot of the sexualized images in comics are just juvenile. "Tee hee, boobies and crotch shots!" Manara's Spider-Woman looks like someone ready to get fucked from behind, to put it bluntly.
More importantly though, this is a cover for the first issue of the few female-led books from either Marvel or DC. Even though it is a variant cover, what kind of message does that send about their female leads?
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Topic Closed)
