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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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Heroes Return ended because Joe Quesada decided that all of their comics should read like Watchmen and DKR's, only with about 1/10 the artistic integrity, skill and substance.
Ah, well. It was a nice mini-era that 1998-2002.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 2
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Let us pause in fond remembrance of a time when THAT could still happen!
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In the most recent Captain America, the big cliffhanger on the last page is that it appears the Falcon has sacrificed his life to save Cap and New York City as a whole...
...which would be a great cliffhanger if I wasn't already three months deep in promotion for Sam Wilson taking over as the new Captain America in a couple of months.
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Andy Meyers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 567
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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I concur about Marvel not being the same. At it's best it feels like home but with a sense of excitement because the creative ways the books are being presented. A reader gets that feeling they are seeing something new even if they are familiar with the characters/book.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 4
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If adults in our real world can keep secrets like affairs, financial status, criminal activity and even entire families from the people close to them then secret identities shouldn't be much different, right? As you say, fans rarely keep objectivity when considering these types of things...
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I'm a priest. I regularly hear confessions...you have no idea! Some days it seems like everyone has a secret identity...
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 5
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In the most recent Captain America, the big cliffhanger on the last page is that it appears the Falcon has sacrificed his life to save Cap and New York City as a whole...
Isn't "how is he going to get out of this one?" a valid cliffhanger, though? The hero isn't likely to get permanently offed at the end of an issue (and not without a front-page article in the New York Post), but that doesn't mean there's no suspense when Spider-Man goes into a building that explodes or Thor falls into some one-way dimensional portal that's going to be permanently and completely closed forever and ever once he's gone through. The hero probably not getting killed isn't a spoiler that should detract from reading enjoyment.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 6
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Isn't "how is he going to get out of this one?" a valid cliffhanger, though?
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You make a very valid point. But to me, the best writing draws you in and causes you to forget those things you know outside of the story and become caught up in it.
As an example, I was recently reading the book 1453, a non-fiction book about the fall of Constantinople in that year to the Turks. Everything in the book unfolded more than five and a half centuries ago. I've read other things on the events, I know how they unfold. But that particular book was so well written that I found myself, for example, in the telling of one of the naval battles, rooting for the Venetian mercenaries to save the day, even though objectively, I knew they wouldn't.
Likewise, when I'm watching TOS episodes, I know none of the main crew is going to die. I know the ship isn't going to be destroyed. But with the particularly well-written ones, I get caught up enough that for a moment I let myself think that maybe Scotty might be dead, or maybe the ship might not make it this time, if only for a few moments. Or when a pro-wrestling match is particularly well performed, I get involved in it and for a few moments forget that its scripted and choreographed and start rooting for one side or the other.
All of that is made a lot more difficult when you've had the next 6 months of stories laid out for you in detail, sometimes in the form of ads in the very comic you're reading at the time. Sadly, I haven't bought a new comic book (just trades and back issues) in coming up on two years, but I can tell you what's going in most of the major name books because I still get the advertising and the hype in my email box.
There's something wrong there. Marvel and DC need to stop writing press releases and go back to writing comic books.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132288
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 7
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Sadly, we have too many people reading comics who have been doing so FAR too long. And, doubly sad, as they continue this pursuit, they are unable to accept the most basic tropes of the form, not the least of which is the impossible happens.No only happens, but happens a lot! A kid gets bitten by a radioactive spider. A group of astronauts get bombarded by cosmic rays. A scientist is caught on the edge of a nuclear blast. And NONE of them get cancer! There was a time when there were certain early warning signs that a reader was getting too old for comics. Wondering about the characters' sex lives was a biggie. But asking how the powers can "possibly" work was another. Disputing the ability to maintain a secret identity for so many years. And on the topic of years, demanding that they PASS in comics, in something approaching real time. Once, these were cues to seek a new hobby. Now, with so many of the people who used to ask those questions in charge of the books, answering them becomes important.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 8
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Keep in mind that Captain America issue came out the same week as a comic called "The Death of Wolverine." Which will be a nice trade paperback to have alongside The Death of Captain Marvel, The Death of Gwen Stacy, The Death of...yikes.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132288
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 9
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Heroes Return ended because Joe Quesada decided that all of their comics should read like Watchmen and DKR's, only with about 1/10 the artistic integrity, skill and substance. •• This is ever and always the main problem. Whenever a comic book company decides to "reboot" itself, I find myself wondering who they have on staff who's really up to the task. Do they have a Kirby, a Ditko, a Stan Lee?
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 10
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This is ever and always the main problem. Whenever a comic book company decides to "reboot" itself, I find myself wondering who they have on staff who's really up to the task. Do they have a Kirby, a Ditko, a Stan Lee?
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Even the post-Crisis DC reboot, with talent like JB, George Perez, Frank Miller, Mike Baron, Keith Giffen, Jim Aparo, Jerry Ordway, etc. didn't really 'take'. Almost from the very start, the characters all changed back to essentially the pre-reboot versions, except for Batman, who just kept getting more and more mutilated.
The Nu52 seems to have taken the post-Crisis Batman 'revamp' as the pattern to be applied to every title.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 11
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Once, these were cues to seek a new hobby.
I'd suggest that these folk simply shuffle away from super-hero comics (which should be aimed at 'all ages', IMO).
There are plenty of other genres/titles (Walking Dead, Saga, etc) written for 'mature' readers (albeit the dwindling group still out there).
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11249
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 12
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On a related note,Comixology has JB`s Spider-man Chapter one on offer this weekend.
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Topic Closed)
