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David Allen Perrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3549
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 1
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"There was a time when there were certain early warning signs that a reader was getting too old for comics. Wondering about the characters' sex lives was a biggie. But asking how the powers can "possibly" work was another. Disputing the ability to maintain a secret identity for so many years. And on the topic of years, demanding that they PASS in comics, in something approaching real time.Once, these were cues to seek a new hobby. Now, with so many of the people who used to ask those questions in charge of the books, answering them becomes important."
These words should be carved into a giant granite tablet and said tablet be dropped on the heads or various editors, writers and fans as needed.
Demanding that costumes be 'practical' is another warning sign.
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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5486
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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Holy Crap ! Reading these posts makes me glad I stopped reading new comics 3 decades ago. Now I can pick and choose JB runs (and any others that come highly recommended) at my leisure. These are my new comics.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 3
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Heroes Return ended because Joe Quesada decided that all of their comics should read like Watchmen and DKR's, only with about 1/10 the artistic integrity, skill and substance.
Don't forget Miracleman.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 05 September 2014 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | 4
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In the most recent Captain America, the big cliffhanger on the last
page is that it appears the Falcon has sacrificed his life to save Cap
and New York City as a whole...
*******
Isn't "how is he going to get out of this one?" a valid cliffhanger,
though? The hero isn't likely to get permanently offed at the end of
an issue...
============
No, it's not enough. You make a valid point, but I disagree.
This is where the death Jean Grey and even Guardian comes in
handy. Characters HAVE died. Without the three month promotion of a
storyline, you didn't know what could happen. You assumed the hero
would win, but there was an illusion that it could. The stakes became
higher because it COULD happen. Not that it did or should, but it
could. That made you feel like you NEEDED to get the next issue.
With, the Internet media, the direct market preview so far in advance,
as well as the ridiculous number of characters that have died and
come back, the illusion has been broken.
I get the impression that both Marvel and DC don't see the monthly
regular books as having any real worth. Only the event stories seem to
matter. The events get cryptic preview blurbs to try and preserve there
ending, the regular issues don't.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132342
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 5:14am | IP Logged | 5
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Heroes Return ended because Joe Quesada decided that all of their comics should read like Watchmen and DKR's, only with about 1/10 the artistic integrity, skill and substance. ++ Don't forget Miracleman. •• What say we call a moratorium on the use of phrases like "Did you forget," or "Don't forget"? When someone lists a few titles, I'm sure their intent is to be representative, not comprehensive.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 5:21am | IP Logged | 6
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Will do, JB. I just thought that Miracleman was significant considering Joe Q is now involved in making new comics with the character.
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Ted Pugliese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 7979
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 7
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In addition to the top tear books listed, Marvel had a
few other titles I enjoyed at the time including the only
other Alpha Flight I ever liked at all, plus Defenders
and Heroes for Hire. I enjoyed Quesada's Daredevil too.
Then everything was different.
And we were living in a TPB world.
With what felt like no connection to what had happened
before.
I even enjoyed, though after the fact in TPB, Ultimates
and Supreme Power for what they were because I never
thought I was reading the Avengers or the Squadron
Supreme. Even Astonishing X-Men, again in TPB, was ok
all by itself. Then everything felt like that, and one
day I realized that the Marvel Universe I knew and loved,
that the Marvel Comics I grew up on were gone...
And so was I.
Sad.
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Darin Henry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 September 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 61
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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I loved late 90s/Bob Harras Marvel too! They were books that felt fresh without disrespecting what came before. I was buying around 30 titles/month including Hidden Years & Spider-man. Three years after Quesada took over I was down to one book - Spider-girl. When that finally went away, so did I. I've tried going back this summer. Things are a little better now but it's just not the same. Nothing feels worth 4 bucks, that's for sure.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 9
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I just thought that Miracleman was significant considering Joe Q is now involved in making new comics with the character.
***
Are they really new? I thought Marvel was just reprinting the Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman stories, including (eventually) the Gaiman stories that were supposed to be printed if Eclipse Comics hadn't gone out of business.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 10
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You're looking at things way too much from the perspective of an all-knowing fan, not as a character who lives in the Marvel Universe.
***
No, I'm not. I'm looking at it from the perspective of, say, Anna Watson, Mary Jane's aunt. Anna, as I recall, is close to May Parker and certainly knows Peter. If anyone would know that May wasn't "quite herself" (i.e., was really a genetically-modified actress), it would be Anna.
Moreover, Anna certainly knows (as does everyone in Marvel New York, I assume) that Gwen Stacy was killed by the Green Goblin. If she learned that May wasn't really dead but was kidnapped by the Goblin -- for some not-publicly-stated reason -- I don't think it would be very hard for her to connect the dots.
After all, the only connection that Gwen and May have is Peter Parker.
And why would the Goblin want to hurt Peter? Maybe for some reason that explains Peter's long absences and general unreliability? Hmmm...
I'm not being a fanboy here, folks. I'm critiquing bad, illogical writing. Nobody should get a pass, whether it's Alan Moore or Howard Mackie or whomever.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132342
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 11
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And why would the Goblin want to hurt Peter? Maybe for some reason that explains Peter's long absences and general unreliability? Hmmm...••• Or maybe because Peter is CONNECTED to Spider-Man? However you wish to delude yourself, you are allowing characters to make leaps of logic that are not within their spectrum. Because you know things they don't.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 06 September 2014 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 12
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Or maybe because Peter is CONNECTED to Spider-Man?
****
Was that still true by 1998 or whenever the story was? Yeah they WERE connected -- Peter photographing Spider-Man all the time for the Bugle was a key part of who he was -- but was he still doing that by the time May came back?
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