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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 19 October 2014 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 1
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Pictures aren't showing up for me, but yeah, Walt strongly implied that every Doom appearance that wasn't drawn by Jack Kirby may have been a Doom-Bot.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 19 October 2014 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 2
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At one point, if I recall correctly, he mentions having left after his hands were crushed by Ben Grimm suggesting that even some of the later Lee and Kirby works may have featured Doombots. What's nice about Simonson's approach is that he does not specifically state which appearances "count" and which do not...
I'm having the same trouble posting photos as Eric seems to be having, so I'll just quote from one relevant panel I was able to find on-line,"I have been gone a long time, young man, further from here than you can possibly imagine, and although I made the occasional sojourn home, the way was long and difficult. I did not come often and I have much catching up to do."
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2175
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Posted: 19 October 2014 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 3
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While there is a fair amount of Archaeology going on in the Al Ewing dialog (thanks, Nathan!), it seems the only real offending bit is the re-retcon line. I can't reconcile the idea that Doom would willingly suffer an indignity from anyone he considered beneath him, which is practically everyone. He should have at least put the fear of Doom in him.
As for the thought balloon, if a telepath can be fooled by a Doombot, and they are programmed to "believe" they are Doom, I think it perfectly reasonable they can have thought balloons. If they could routinely fool anybody, they would easily have the Turing Test beat. They'd count as a sentient machine.
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Eric Smearman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 5798
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Posted: 19 October 2014 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 4
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Brian: That quote was in one of the panels I found and was trying to upload.
Edited by Eric Smearman on 19 October 2014 at 10:12pm
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 5
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Simonson's Doom was aware of Kristoff and the contingency plan regarding him. This would imply that the Doom who met Kristoff was "real."
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Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 6
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Brad Krawchuck:
QUOTE:
So I've gotta be familiar with an X-Men comic from 1981 and an FF comic from 1983 in order to "get" that dialogue.
Yeah, way to make comics for new readers in 2014, Marvel! A reference to a 31 year old comic panel! |
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"Hello, new readers. You cannot enter before doing your homework. Now leave."
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4067
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 7
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"Hello, new readers. You cannot enter before doing your homework. Now leave."
Or, you know, a reference that a longtime reader might enjoy, but that a new reader will only get on a basic level. But I guess no writer in comics has ever done that before, right?
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Brian J Nelson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014 Location: United States Posts: 365
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 8
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You're right Andrew, it happens quite often. It is probably one of those things that helped me graduate from being a civilian reader to a fan. I always loved the asterisk boxes to see another or a past issue. It got me digging in back issue bins to see what I could find. It is one of the things I miss these days and wish could be put back.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4548
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 9
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Francesco Vanagolli wrote:
"Hello, new readers. You cannot enter before doing your homework. Now leave." |
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I'm puzzled as to why Al Ewing's obscure reference to some old comics is considered bad, but JB's obscure reference to a two-year-old X-Men comic (in the original FF story) is considered perfectly acceptable. What's the distinction? Both are passing references to old stories that might not make sense to a new reader, but (being passing references) don't significantly detract from the overall comprehension of the story.
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4067
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 10
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It is probably one of those things that helped me graduate from being a civilian reader to a fan. I always loved the asterisk boxes to see another or a past issue. It got me digging in back issue bins to see what I could find. It is one of the things I miss these days and wish could be put back.
I can tell you exactly what my first issue was for any Marvel book I started reading in the eighties, whether it was 226, 250, 285, 286, 310, 335, 347, 402... It's another discussion entirely, but I was looking at Avengers back issues the other day and realized that there have been about nine big Avengers launches in the last twelve years, and a footnote telling you to check out Avengers #3 will likely just make your head explode just like one of those Doombots posted earlier.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7620
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 11
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And that is a fairly important distinction I think - thank you Andrew.
Nowadays, you don't get footnotes directing you to the source of what is being discussed, even when it is a major plot point. Now, unfortunately I can't give you full details regarding title, issue, character etc on the following example because I just couldn't be bothered to remember everything and I'm not at home to look things up but here goes .....
In a recent issue of a comic, a villain comes back having been away for a while and proceeds to bang on about how they were much maligned during the last encounter with the hero. The entire thrust of the comic is about getting back at the hero for the wrong that was done, which is described in vague detail. The inference I got was that I was supposed to be familiar with both the encounter and the villain.
I was familiar with the villain but not with what he was talking about, and thought it would be useful to the understanding of the story to reread the previous encounter since it plays such an important part in the reason for the current story.The current story only describes the previous encounter in vague details though.
At no point in the issue am I told where I can find the original story.
That is a serious error in my view.
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 20 October 2014 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 12
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