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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 1
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I think they'd have come about, anyway, Joseph. Technology advancing and all that.
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Brian Skelley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 231
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 2
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Joseph Greathouse wrote:
The time and money wasted, in retrospect, was ridiculous. Besides usenet access, there was the need for storage space, overages on my internet connection, software, etc |
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Did you have costs just for the pirated stuff? Like you only bought some storage because of what you were downloading? I ask because one of hte main reasons I've seen people pirate is because it's cheap. They're already paying the cost because they use the tech for other stuff. Pirated stuff is a bonus. To answer your question, yes... kinda. Napster for all it's faults did force the music industry to evolve. They had been doing business the same way for a long time and didn't really have a need to change until it went off the rails. The thing is, if it wasn't Napster and piracy it would have been something else. Someone like Apple would have come along and convinced them to update for sales... so kinda.
I have a massive pet peeve about piracy. I do think it's crap, and it effects a lot of people. There was a blog post that I can't find that talked about the results of piracy. The big one being, you're stealing a possible sale. You can't show a theft as there isn't a loss when it comes to bits of data. You do however steal the chance that creator/seller had to get someone to buy it when someone posts it in a free version. That doesn't always mean that someone would have bought it, but there's a chance. Anyone that's ever attempted to profit from creation understands the loss of piracy, which is why I have the peeve. The people doing it, normally haven't ever attempted to create anything in their lives. They are just consuming.. and the one thing I've always seen (pre and post internet) is that people want crap for free because they think they're special.
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6604
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 3
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My family has owned a movie theatre since 84, and I abhor people who pirate movies. Meaning, almost everyone I know and come in contact with on a daily basis. Shamelessly telling me they won't see "Movie A" they'll just go home and watch it free. The respect I lose for them will never be regained. I am the GM at the restaurant/bar we work at, and to tell me such is a black mark upon their souls. Just my opinion, of course, but, I'll show them no favor and watch them like a hawk.
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Joseph Greathouse Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015 Location: United States Posts: 588
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 4
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"Did you have costs just for the pirated stuff? Like you only bought some storage because of what you were downloading? I ask because one of hte main reasons I've seen people pirate is because it's cheap. They're already paying the cost because they use the tech for other stuff. Pirated stuff is a bonus."
You are correct that this is the common justification. Most of those pirating don't take the time to analyze what they are doing and what they are really getting out of it. Those of us that pirated, don't pirate just what we used, if we did it would be cheap. It was the hording that lead to extra costs. But, because we felt we were paying for the tech anyway, it was just another use, without realizing that the pirating generally was the justification for the tech. And nobody considers the actual time involved. When I gave it up, I gained so much of my time back. But, to the point, the costs are not generally seen directly as they are indirect costs.
" The people doing it, normally haven't ever attempted to create anything in their lives. They are just consuming.. and the one thing I've always seen (pre and post internet) is that people want crap for free because they think they're special. "
This is actually far from true. I'm also a creator of content in my own field. So to say that the people doing it have never created is similar to making the assumption that shop lifting is only done by the poor. I knew many people that created that were in piracy. Heck, how do you think so much content got out so quickly?
Interestingly, the shop lifting comparison is probably more accurate. From conversations, most of us never touched more that 2% of what we would steal. It was easy to get an entire series downloaded. The odds of finding the time to sit and watch something was tough. Usually because i was on the computer looking for other files to download. And, when I would watch, I'd grab the DVD's instead. I'd justify piracy from today well into tomorrow. Name the argument, I am sure I used it with someone. But really, that had nothing to do with it. It was just a need to posses.
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6604
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 2:31pm | IP Logged | 5
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My disdain for piracy also extends to tribute bands. I may not enjoy the music of Phish, but I do have a very good friend who plays in a Phish tribute band. They sell out wherever they go, huge crowds, and make money off someone else's intellectual property. I find this troubling. If a comedian tried such a thing, he'd never work again.
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David Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3009
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 6
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If a tribute band plays at venues who pay the proper licensing fees, I don't see what the problem is. There's an entire legal infrastructure in place for cover songs.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15811
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 7
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But what IP are they infringing? You do not have to pay a royalty under US law to cover a song live. The venue itself should have a licence from organisations like ASCAP that covers the usage of songs, which is supposed to go back to its members.
Members of the audience are surely not confused as to what they are seeing.
Tribute bands satisfy a situation where demand outstrips supply.
More often than not they exists where the bands in question just cannot be seen anymore : eg Bowie, Beatles, Queen, ABBA.
The tribute band is not stealing revenue away from Phish, presumably. Should the real Phish turn up in town I doubt their sales would be any lower because of the tribute band.
You could argue imitating the look and sound is fair use and serves to promote the band.
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6604
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think if you were the writers, agents, producers, and label execs you'd think differently. Look at the comedian as an example. Why can't I just go out and say I'm doing a " comedy tribute " and do my favorite Carlin bits for an hour? Because I'd get sued and maybe even my legs broken.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 9
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Has any band ever complained about a tribute band? Has a record company ever complained about a tribute band?
Genuine question, I haven't heard of it happening. If neither a record company or band have complained about a tribute band, is it even a problem?
Does a tribute band take away from sales? There's a Pink Floyd tribute band in a very small town near where I used to live (West Midlands) in a venue that the real Pink Floyd are highly unlikely to ever visit. Are they a threat to Pink Floyd's royalties?
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David Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3009
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 10
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Somebody please think of the label execs!
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6604
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 11
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Metallica Prince Pink Pink Floyd
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 28 September 2016 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 12
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Joe, what did they say? I'd be interested to know.
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