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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 29 November 2016 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 1
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So, if we were to shave him, we'd see white skin? I wonder what a shaven Beast looks like. Has that ever been depicted? ************************************************************ ***************8 Does his mutation change his "race"? Are Nightcrawler and Mystique not "Caucasian' also?
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 29 November 2016 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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It all makes sense now ... the story of the X-Men is about a gang of five prep-school kids who bully a misunderstood old Holocaust survivor ... the racist message was there all along!
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
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| Posted: 29 November 2016 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 3
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Bobby was clumsy and unlucky around women, so OF COURSE he's Gay.
Wait, didn't I just describe the standard cliche comic fan?
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Yep, and a large number of non comic book reading males. I have to wonder how those straight fans and fans turned pro who support Iceman being retconned into being gay would feel if people said they were gay because they were clumsy and unlucky around the opposite sex.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 30 November 2016 at 6:03am | IP Logged | 4
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ITEM: There were six original X-Men, if we're to take X-Men #1 at face value.
ITEM: Wolverine was not an original X-Man. And at this point, I wish Mr. Byrne had been successful in his efforts.
ITEM: I do not recall that we ever saw Beast shorn (nor Nightcrawler, really) but in "Hulk: Days of Future Past", we do see his pelt hanging in the Maestro's collection. A most disturbing image. COROLLARY: Beast's claws were blue... and I never met anyone who had fingernails of ANY color. I think this was just never discussed until non-white characters HAD to take priority. So unfortunate.
ITEM: Any reports on the status of Banshee, Mimic, Havok, or Polaris these days? Just slightly curious enough to ask.
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John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 4378
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| Posted: 30 November 2016 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 5
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I have to wonder how those straight fans and fans turned pro who support Iceman being retconned into being gay would feel if people said they were gay because they were clumsy and unlucky around the opposite sex.
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Are we still in an era where people are insulted by someone incorrectly guessing they're gay? Who would care?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132342
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| Posted: 30 November 2016 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 6
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Are we still in an era where people are insulted by someone incorrectly guessing they're gay? Who would care?•• Too many people, idiots all. Sadly, we do not yet live in a society where homosexuality is considered in the same light has having freckles, or one blue eye and one green. Our preponderant religion teaches it is a sin deserving of death. Highly placed politicos think it can and should be "cured." We've a long way to go, and stunt retcons of existing characters doesn't smooth the path.
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Jason Larouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 515
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| Posted: 30 November 2016 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 7
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ITEM: Any reports on the status of Banshee, Mimic, Havok, or Polaris these days? Just slightly curious enough to ask.
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Edited by Jason Larouse on 30 November 2016 at 9:07am
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Michael Murphy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 341
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| Posted: 30 November 2016 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 8
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What's disturbing to me is the raft of criticism that's been levelled against what to me looks like at least an attempt at a 'back-to-basics' reboot. Specifically, people are mad, particularly at the book with the five original X-Men, because all the characters are white. Publishing a comic featuring the original characters is apparently now politically incorrect.
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I think this kind of thought process is part of the problem and why so many see the labels "social justice" and "politically correct" as bad things. Every cause or point of view has people at it's extremes who scream at any perceived slight. Many people are turned off by extremists, especially when the viewpoint expressed is opposite their own, and they start to lump those of a more moderate nature with the extremists just because they have similar concerns.
Since I have not seen the level of criticism that you have I might be missing something but I would be willing to wager that a very small segment of the comics reading population is acting out in the way you describe.
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Jeff Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 November 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 238
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| Posted: 30 November 2016 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 9
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I am all for diversity in comics, but...I never liked the idea of taking established white characters and making them black or some other ethnic race. Nick Fury is a good example. I love my black superheroes...Black Panther, Luke Cage, Storm, Cyborg, etc....would be pissed if someone decided to make any one of those established characters white! I dunno, can't we create new characters for the sake of race & diversity? Or have we run out of NEW character ideas altogether??
The same applies to gay characters, do not make already established straight characters gay. I totally understand George Takei's issues with making the Sulu character gay in the last Trek movie. The character had already been established as being straight & George, as a gay man was not pleased with this drastic change, even if others say it is a tribute to George.
Edited by Jeff Scott on 30 November 2016 at 10:34am
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30906
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| Posted: 30 November 2016 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 10
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Havok looks like Two-Face now... ******* Lame.
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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 01 December 2016 at 2:22am | IP Logged | 11
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"The book with the original X-Men does have two minorities on it. One woman and one gay man.."
Women aren't a minority. They actually outnumber men, at least in the US. But the whole team is a bigger minority (oxymoron?) than blacks or gays or whatever token they think should be on the team. They are all mutants.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 01 December 2016 at 5:40am | IP Logged | 12
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The problem is an easy one, with a little tiny word at the heart of it.
Why make established characters black or Asian or gay or some other trait previously inapplicable?
Because no one can do NEW.
Making Daredevil black or Dr. Strange gay will get readers - because DD and Doctor Strange have an already-established reader base, who will keep reading stories about their characters.
But introducing new characters means that there have to be readers - and in the shrinking and increasingly expensive comic market, NO ONE WILL BUY BOOKS ABOUT NEW CHARACTERS. So, a Brazilian martial artist called the Mantis or a polygamist speedster called Neutrino? No dice. New characters are dead out of the box. The ONLY way for writers to play with toys is to work with the established ones, and be damned to history and any sort of continuity.
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Topic Closed)
