Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 7 Next >>
Topic: Should Influential latter creators Get Co-Creator Credit? Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118017
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

...possible exception...

•••

There are no “possible exception(s)”. If something already exists, one cannot subsequently be part of its creation. That creation is in the Past, done, finished. Anything added is extrapolation.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10694
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

As much as the US Supreme Court has creatively interpreted the Constitution over hundreds of years, often radically changing or even adding to its original meaning in incredibly influential ways, no Justice of the Court could be said to have created it.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4169
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Honestly, I can't think of any other possible exception besides Daredevil. Wood and Miller fundamentally changed the character's foundations, and that certainly deserves permanent mention.

========================================================

Okay, but...

Wolverine's costume has been re-designed numerous times by people such as JB, Jim Lee and Marc Silvestri. Does that mean they created?

I like Miller's run yet he picked a lot existing Marvel lore and characters for it. The Kingpin and The Punisher from Spider-Man. Bullseye was already there and Miller made him more than just a Flash-like villain with a gimmick.

I'd say Roger McKenzie began the trend of stripping DD down more to street level type stories.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118017
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Roger Stern gets credit and royalties for his "creation" of Hobgoblin, which has long struck me as a bit odd. Taking an existing character's schtick and applying it to someone else seems something less than an act of "creation" to me.

Ironically, when we were working together on LOST GENERATION, Rog dredged up a character who had appeared in only one story in the 1940s and grafted his origin onto one of my characters--which meant that, technically, I could no longer say I had "created" the character. He'd been transformed into something pre-existing.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4169
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Roger Stern gets credit and royalties for his "creation" of Hobgoblin, which has long struck me as a bit odd. Taking an existing character's schtick and applying it to someone else seems something less than an act of "creation" to me. ========================================================

I wasn't aware of that. Even Roger has said in interviews he was basically riffing on the Green Goblin without tying the Hobgoblin back to the other versions. It was a way to bring the Goblin-themed villain back without bringing back Norman or making Harry don the costume again.

Edited by Greg McPhee on 03 December 2019 at 8:34am
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118017
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Yes, Rog didn't put together Hobgoblin with any intent to claim "creation". That was Marvel's doing.

Which was itself odd, given how stingy they used to be about apportioning creation credits. Lawyers too a'feared that might imply ownership.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4169
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Yes, Rog didn't put together Hobgoblin with any intent to claim "creation".

========================================================

More like he wanted to tell a good Spider-Man story being his intention.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 562
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Imagine Tom King being credited as the co-creator of Mister Miracle. Or the Vision.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118017
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

In a semi-amusing way, this discussion reminds me of times, over the years, when I have said I did not create Wolverine, but he IS my fault!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Rhodes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3128
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Hm. So, Chris Evans, who has played a key member of two Marvel teams created by Stan Lee, still hasn't portrayed a character created by Stan Lee.

Nor has Chris Hemsworth, for that matter.  
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118017
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I blame the Image boys, btw, for turning "create" into an active verb and confusing the issue. I recall one of their stunts was to swap books, and the ads ran something like "This month Todd McFarlane will not create SPAWN..."

Even setting aside the minimal actual "creation" that occurred in SPAWN, it still happened just that once, and if Lee or Larsen or Liefeld did an issue, it would be as a "guest artist", not a "creator".

Mind you, a lot of familiar terms from the Sixties and Seventies got screwed up in the Eighties. Guest appearances started to be called "crossovers". Anything with super powers was a "mutant". And, of course, "graphic novel" came to be applied to any crap that happened to be square-bound. No wonder "create" also took a hit.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 118017
Posted: 03 December 2019 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Hm. So, Chris Evans, who has played a key member of two Marvel teams created by Stan Lee, still hasn't portrayed a character created by Stan Lee.

Nor has Chris Hemsworth, for that matter.

••

Mythology compounds the confusion. Did Stan and Jack "create" Thor? Of course not. There have been many version of Thor over the centuries (which is one reason I was able to use a character by that name in JK4W). Stan and Jack stitched together their own version of the character, and that version was, at first, very different from the traditional mythology. Altho not, it should be noted, terribly different from a version that appeared in BATMAN 127!

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 7 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login