Republicans will ban books, but not AR-15s, as well as arm teachers for whom they think are "indoctrinating" kids by teaching "critical race theory" (a.k.a. real history).  They're so effed up...

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Kevin, you do know many Republicans support gun reform and many Democrats support not changing gun laws.   Gun ownership isn't solely a political issue.  It's a class/social issue.  It's a race issue.  there's a whole lot to unpack.

Conservatives typically don't run an election campaign on an anti-gun platform because, yes, there are a larger number of pro-gun voters on the right.  That does not mean ALL conservatives support insane gun laws.

But it's so disgustingly ignorant to talk about "Republicans" and "Democrats" like they're different species.  Where do "Independents" fall in your bigotry?   Do "Republicans" only get to sit at the counter...?

You do know it's okay to have different opinions on things, right?  Someone is not less of a person because they think small businesses should be shuttered in place of big government and social programs.  Not wanting prayer in schools doesn't make you a bad person, it just means you have a different belief structure than someone else.

I think this gun debate will show more progress if the red and blue lines weren't drawn so thick and bold.

Maybe not assume Kevin is a moron and understands that not all members of party are a monolith. Can Americans discuss overall party trends and the direction the party leadership is going in general without people chiming in with NotAllMen-style arguments?

What a fluffy strawman!

I blame the bigotry on violent video games.

Yes, I know how politics work.

But justifying misleading people like that like it's a *good thing*? Whole other level.

They haven't had a a chance to do something about it since '77 or something, you said so yourself. That's forty five years. And the future isn't looking precisely brighter. When does it stop making sense? Apparently never, for some types.

I'm guessing this has to do more with faith than actual possible political action. Probably some sort of self-affirmation too ("I'm one of the good guys! But those wacky Republicans never let me do anything grrr").

And when it comes to faith, obviously there's no debate possible. I don't share your faith, but I gotta respect it I guess. Get them guns.

I admit my comment "welcome to the American political system" was needlessly condescending, and you've obviously decided you needed to respond in kind.  I'm sorry for my part in that, and I'll refrain from escalating further.

Trying to achieve reform via the ballot box has not produced results in the past 28 years, but I am unable to identify any alternative method that would be more effective.  If you want gun control laws enacted, it seems to me the only way to potentially make that happen is to vote for people who say they support gun control laws, and vote against people who oppose them.  Yes, it's not guaranteed to be effective, because it's a strategy dependent on a sufficient amount of other people voting in the same manner.  But I can think of no alternative. 

And unless I've missed it, you have not suggested one.  Earlier you made the vague statement that "The solution has to come from the people, in some way. A national non-partisan conversation on the subject."  What exactly would that entail?  Absent specifics, such a statement says little.  The only real way the people can affect what the government does is by voting, persuading others to vote, and/or persuading members of congress their future votes will be withheld if the do not act.

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I'm not, Michael, thanks.

And just to point it out to the one who assumed, he should learn how to read.  I didn't say "all" Republicans.  However, it also needs to be pointed out that all 50 in the Senate will block any bill that represents any type of gun law.  Period.

I don't have the answer to that, and if I did I wouldn't share it for free in this forum. 

But I do believe in the spirit of what I said there. From the people, not the politicians. Non-partisan. 

Mainstream Democrats are lying to you. I know you don't want to believe that but most of them are equally interested in changing anything as those cartoonishly evil Republicans you love to hate.

Voting harder for them will not get any results except getting more of them employed and more of that sweet donation/lobbying money. 

Then when election time comes again they will yap about regulations and background checks and once elected they will do nothing and blame those Dick Dastardly inspired Republicans (which are mostly their friends and colleagues actually, and have much more common interests in between them than with you, the people) and their latest shenanigans like the filibuster.

Pretty much a Lucy with the football situation, with Hanna-Barbera colorful villains for added spice (and they said cartoons would rot my brain, huh this'll show them).

Call this cynicism, or having a lot of experience on Third World countries politics but I kinda recognize this when I see it. And it's the same everywhere, only out here we at least use harsher words like "corruption" instead of "lobbying" and "fraud" instead of "gerrymandering" or the such.

Voting in elections will get you nowhere on this issue. And both parties want that to stay like that. One likes to play the good guy and one enjoys (a little too much) playing the dastardly villain. 

And their voters follow their lead and also enjoy their assigned roles and nothing gets solved until the next episode/election where it all starts over again.

Of course it's *better* to vote for the good guy than Dick Dastardly I guess (probably with a lot more accountability in the mix) but remember without Dick Dastardly it would be a pretty boring show. 

And the number one rule is that the show must go on.

Hmm, I think I have thesis material here. Sorry for the rant ha, and I obviously don't mean to offend anyone. It would be funny if there weren't so, so many innocent lives on the line.

Well, I gave it a shot, but you've clearly become too invested in condescension at this point.  And you've successfully drawn enough incorrect inferences about my opinions to make a nice straw man argument here.

I will point out that "all politicians are evil" and "the solution must somehow come from THE PEOPLE rather than politicians" is just as simplistic and naive a take as that which you attribute to me.  I do not have any illusions that a solution to America's gun problem is forthcoming.  But any viable solution would necessarily involve laws being passed and enforced, and I'm puzzled as to how that might happen without the involvement of these evil politicians. 

Given the current political landscape, I'm not confident that voting will make much of a difference, but I am quite confident that the alternative will make even less difference.  And that there is nothing else that the average, non-wealthy American can do.

 

Not my intention, sorry if it sounded like that. I wasn't replying to you directly, more like speaking in general with some of your posts as starting points.

I know that's a very subtle distinction but I truly wasn't trying to mock you or condescend you personally. Again, sorry if it sounded like that.

Of course it's naive, I'm a hopeless romantic after all. But it's a different kind of naive than voting what the "good guys" tell you to vote, them doing nothing and then voting for them again and again.

The main argument the Dems appeal to in election time is "the other guys are way worse!". While that may be true, I find it to be a very cynical way of winning elections, which seems to be their only goal.

And solutions DO come from the people, sometimes. You just need to look at your own history. Politicians didn't give you civil rights because they were feeling generous that day, the people won them on the streets.

It may sound naive, but it has worked. A number of times.

Pretty much.